Monday, February 18, 2013
6. Restoration
Because Latter-day Saints believe that divine apostolic authority was lost from the earth after the death of the ancient apostles, a restoration of that authority was necessary. Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that restoration began in the early 1800s with revelations to the young Joseph Smith.
As with all my research, it is ongoing and always under construction. So whatever you may be reading, there's a good chance it will change by the time you read it a second time. As I learn more about the Mormon teaching, I will post it and revise what I have written.
5. That God is an exalted perfect man
Mormons teach that the Father (Heavenly Father or God) is an exalted “Man” who lived on an earth like us and progressed to godhood. He is married to “Heavenly Mother” and together they procreate spirit babies to be born into physical human bodies on earth.
God the Father is Spirit, not a Man. He is not married. He did not progress to become God, for He has been God from all eternity and does not change. – John 4:24; Hosea 11:9; Numbers 23:19; Matthew 22:28-30; Psalm 90:2; Malachi 3:6; James 1:17
This initial part of my investigation (also cited above in #8. The Mormon Plan of Salvation) was taken from excerpts statements made by Rex E Lee, president of Brigham Young University (hereinafter referred to as BYU) he states, "though we do not remember it, we existed as spirits before this life." According to this LDS belief of eternal progression, by strict obedience, a man, any man may become a God, a creator like God. "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man sits enthroned in yonder heavens"
in the Mormon family of God's,
GOD: father of all God's and has a flesh bone body doctrine and covenants 130:22.
ELOHIM: sometimes referred to as an individual. Also described as a consul of God's organize the earth. Doctrine and covenants 121:32 the pearl of great price Abraham 4:1 and Journal of discourses volume 1 page 51
JESUS: God and creator of the whole earth, the Savior 3Nephi 9:15, 11:14
JEHOVAH: in the Old Testament, the name for Jesus Mormon 3:22, Moroni 10:34 and the book of Mormon index
TRINITY: the Godhead of three separate distinct spirit personages, father and the son of flesh and bone, and the Holy Ghost. Alma 11:44, 3Nephi 11:27
ADAM: Jesus's helper and creation. Brigham Young stated: "our father Adam came into the garden of Eden ... And brought Eve, one of his celestial wives ... He is our father and our God." Journal of discourses volume 1 page 50 1854 edition. After his sin, Adam became earth's first Christian. The pearl of great price, Moses 6:64-66; Ensign January 1994 page 11. He is the ancient of days doctrine and covenants 160 and is the literal father of Jesus. Journal of discourses volume 1 page 51.
MICHAEL THE ARCH ANGEL: another name for Adam. Doctrine and covenants 107:54
As with all my research, it is ongoing and always under construction. So whatever you may be reading, there's a good chance it will change by the time you read it a second time. As I learn more about the Mormon teaching, I will post it and revise what I have written.
God the Father is Spirit, not a Man. He is not married. He did not progress to become God, for He has been God from all eternity and does not change. – John 4:24; Hosea 11:9; Numbers 23:19; Matthew 22:28-30; Psalm 90:2; Malachi 3:6; James 1:17
This initial part of my investigation (also cited above in #8. The Mormon Plan of Salvation) was taken from excerpts statements made by Rex E Lee, president of Brigham Young University (hereinafter referred to as BYU) he states, "though we do not remember it, we existed as spirits before this life." According to this LDS belief of eternal progression, by strict obedience, a man, any man may become a God, a creator like God. "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man sits enthroned in yonder heavens"
in the Mormon family of God's,
GOD: father of all God's and has a flesh bone body doctrine and covenants 130:22.
ELOHIM: sometimes referred to as an individual. Also described as a consul of God's organize the earth. Doctrine and covenants 121:32 the pearl of great price Abraham 4:1 and Journal of discourses volume 1 page 51
JESUS: God and creator of the whole earth, the Savior 3Nephi 9:15, 11:14
JEHOVAH: in the Old Testament, the name for Jesus Mormon 3:22, Moroni 10:34 and the book of Mormon index
TRINITY: the Godhead of three separate distinct spirit personages, father and the son of flesh and bone, and the Holy Ghost. Alma 11:44, 3Nephi 11:27
ADAM: Jesus's helper and creation. Brigham Young stated: "our father Adam came into the garden of Eden ... And brought Eve, one of his celestial wives ... He is our father and our God." Journal of discourses volume 1 page 50 1854 edition. After his sin, Adam became earth's first Christian. The pearl of great price, Moses 6:64-66; Ensign January 1994 page 11. He is the ancient of days doctrine and covenants 160 and is the literal father of Jesus. Journal of discourses volume 1 page 51.
MICHAEL THE ARCH ANGEL: another name for Adam. Doctrine and covenants 107:54
As with all my research, it is ongoing and always under construction. So whatever you may be reading, there's a good chance it will change by the time you read it a second time. As I learn more about the Mormon teaching, I will post it and revise what I have written.
Sunday, February 17, 2013
4. On the issue of Pre-Existence & Death
Plan of salvation - The Latter-day Saint theology embraces what Mormons refer to as the “plan of salvation.” The topic covers the pre-mortal state of all mankind, the reasons why God created the world, the nature and purpose of our life here and what future awaits us in the next life. In this discussion, I only plan to discuss what the Mormons believe and briefly go into what the Bible says, vs. what the Mormons teach and how their teaching is in some ways similar to that of other religions of Christendom.
First of all, this is not a belief shared only by the Mormons. I have discovered that thousands if not millions of others including those claiming to be Buddhists and Hindus believe that they too have lived before. They believe that something within them, some call it the soul, the spirit, the inner you or the real you, survives death and is reborn in one or more successive existences. This "something" returns in human, or as some say even vegetable form. Most of them agree that the purpose of this is gradually to purify the soul or to leave the individual to ultimate perfection. So admittedly, the idea of having lived before and if perhaps even living again maybe fascinating, even comforting to some. But is it true? I found a quote from James E Talmadge who was reported to have written the "many scriptural proofs that the spirits of mankind existed prior to their earthly probation - a condition in which these intelligences lived and exercise their free agency before they assumed bodily tabernacles." Then referencing Jesus' proof of his preexistence he says, "it is consistent to infer that if Jesus' earthly birth was the union of a pre-existence or anti-mortal spirit with a mortal body, such also is the birth of every member of the human family."
On a side note, the Mormons claim is supported in part by Jesus' having had a pre-human existence. Thus his earthly sojourn was not designed to place him on earthly probation as though he were a sinner. On the contrary, he was perfect, a sinless human, able to redeem sinners, able to give his soul as a ransom in exchange for many. Matthew 20:28. So Jesus is one-of-a-kind, the one mediator between God and men. 1Timothy 2:5-6. His assignment of service on earth was temporary. After completing it, he would return to his real home, to heaven. In times past, invisible spirit creatures, angels, have all materialized visible human bodies that God's direction. Genesis 19:1 Luke 1:26-28 Then in Noah's day, some of them did so on their own initiative. Why? The selfish purpose of enjoying sexual relations with women. Genesis 6:2 Jude 6 clarifies their disobedience when it calls them, "Angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place." Clearly than heaven is the proper dwelling place for Angels, even as the earth for humans. Psalms 115:16, 1 Corinthians 15:39-40, Jesus actually became flesh when he came to earth. John 1:14, not so with these angels hereinafter referred to as demons, they simply materialize human bodies that they deserted at the time of the flood in order to return the spirit realm. Because of their revolt, God confined into the pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment. No longer could they materialize fleshly bodies to live on earth. 2Peter 2:4 it would seem that one major key in determining whether and have lived before not, either in the spirit realm or on earth, is to determine whether he has an immortal soul or not. Genesis 2:7 describes the creation of the first human soul this way: "and the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Here the soul is not described as something distinct and separate from the lifeless body. In fact, only after God energized the lifeless body of the breath of life, thus triggering into his reading, did the soul Adam come to life in when breathing stops the life force ceases, the body once again becomes lifeless. Man goes back to his ground; in that day's thoughts do perish. Psalms 146:4 he must been away for the day of his resurrection live again John 5:28-29. Meanwhile, there can be no work nor devising nor knowledge or wisdom in the death state Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10. In brief, the Bible teaches that when the person dies, the soul is dead. At Ezekiel 18:4, the Bible says that the soul dies. However, the Book of Mormon, at Alma 42:9, states: “The soul could never die.”
Mormons teach that Adam existed in heaven before he came to earth. If the Bible does not say that man lived in spirit form before you send that he came to be a physical being only as a result of that sin is Mormonism claims. To support this document men all men existed in heaven before they came to earth, they refer to Jeremiah's being known out by God and being appointed before he was born. However this is not proof of preexistence, rather is an obvious reference to a special instance of God's foreknowledge and ability to see the future and to specify that a certain individual would do a certain work and that he was set aside, ordained or appointed for it.
You referred to the disciples asking Jesus is the man born blind sin before birth, so you claim this proves that a man must have existed before birth elsewhere than on earth. Jesus denied this, so does Romans 9:11 "for when they had not yet been born, so I practice anything good or vile, in order that the purpose of God respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not a fun work, but upon the one who calls." (I question this item to a Mormon in his comment was to read the Scripture over and over in the under praise what it is really trying to say. He said listen to the spirit) I find that this scripture is in harmony with the rest of the Bible simply put, man did not have a pre-human existence before he became a man.
They further referred to God's asking Job where he was when first foundation was laid and implied that Job must therefore have been in existence at that time. Actually it was Jehovah showing that Job that he was not there, that he was not in existence and that he had none of the knowledge that God did. Actually, God knew Job was unable to answer, as in the case of a rhetorical question, thereby Job would then realize how lowly he was when compared to Him. Job 38:4-41 God here is showing Jobs' limited knowledge even ignorance of His forces.
This is a discussion between myself and a Mormon elder: I said, That there is no statement in the Bible that says that any man other than Christ was alive somewhere else before coming to the earth and implied that this is an important doctrine of Mormonism, but the apostles did not even mention this concept. I made this statement at the opening of this discussion that I was told by a Mormon about this concept, but was never shown in writing from any one of his publications anything that said before his human existence Jesus' name was Adam. It was my attempt in this conversation to discover just who "he" was either Jesus, Adam or God. The Mormon elder said "since all you go by his proof, why are you assuming with someone just told you is accurate? This is contrary to what you all believe. You want facts, then don't assume what someone says is accurate." My response, "I didn't accept what someone told me to be a fact. I questioned it to another Mormon, you! I asked you to support or deny this statement and if you supported it, please use the Bible in your defense, or if you deny it, then I will accept that as support of your belief that two Elders both agreed on the teaching. I am re-stating what another Mormon elder told me. Was he accurate?" I got no response.
My question on the same subject remains to all Mormons reading this as to whether or not Jesus, Michael the arch angel, the Great Prince and Adam were one and the same. In denying that they are, I use Daniel 12:1, where Michael is referred to as the Great Prince. In Revelation 12:7 it states that Michael and his angels battled. In Jude 9 it refers to Michael as having a dispute with the Devil. In each of these scriptures, I fail to see how Michael could be referred to as Adam? According to our understanding, the Great Prince, Michael, the Arch Angel & Jesus Christ are in fact one and the same. Our understanding is based on the activity in which Michael participates. Our understanding also shows that the Arch-Angel is the highest angel in the heavens. This could only be Jesus not the human called Adam who was condemned to death for disobedience.
ADAM-GOD DOCTRINE: Brigham Young proclaimed that Adam conceived Jesus and that Adam “is our Father our God, and the only God with whom we have to do.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 50, 51) This doctrine has officially been denounced by the modern LDS Church.
What would be the purpose of any pre-human existence if we weren't allowed to draw knowledge and experience from it? What would happen to our civilization and system as we now know it is every year our memories completely erased and we all started all over again learning from point -0- progress for one year and then had to restart all over again? Wouldn't that becomes quite frustrating. On a larger scale, the Mormon teaching is the same.
Isaiah 9:6 refers to a child being born that would come to be a mighty God, as well as the Prince of peace and discussed that the government would be upon his shoulder. Also in Daniel 12:1 states that "Michael the great Prince will stand up …" Both scriptures here refer to a Prince. It is only logical to conclude that this Prince is the Arch-angel himself are the highest angel Jesus Christ. The true God would never allow himself causes of in any writing referred to as a prince.
In discussion with another Mormon Elder, I asked "Where do you get your understanding that Adam & any other men besides Jesus Christ existed in heaven before coming to earth?" The Elder referred to Hebrews 12:9 where it says, "Furthermore, we used to have fathers who were of our flesh to discipline us, and we used to give them respect. Shall we not much more subject ourselves to the Father of our spiritual life and live?" It is my understanding this scripture is not referred to having a previous life in heaven, rather states as we give respect for fleshly father, how much more we do God as our spiritual father because through his provisions we became humans here on earth.
Another scripture you referenced was Romans 9:11 which says, "for when they had not yet been born nor had practiced anything good or vile, in order that the purpose of God respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not upon works, but upon the One who calls," I asked, "if they hadn't done anything good or vile, what had they been doing? The Mormon comment, "read over the scripture and pray over it, you'll get the answer." This to me was a shallow response and fails to defend the Mormon belief. The Mormon Elder than referred to Proverbs 8:22-31, Jeremiah 1:5, Numbers 16:22, and Job 1:6. I researched these scriptures. Proverbs 8:22-31 discusses what Wisdom is. It is my understanding that Jesus is wisdom personified and in no way does Proverbs chapter 8 refer in any degree to all mankind. Jeremiah 1:5 simply refers to the wisdom & understanding Jehovah God has of his own creation. I have no idea how Mormons could mis-apply Numbers 16:22 saying that it has anything to do with human pre-existence. The scripture reads, "At this they fell upon their faces and said: “O God, the God of the spirits of every sort of flesh, will just one man sin and you become indignant against the entire assembly?” So I'll just have to pass on that debate until I get a better Mormon response. Job 1:6 has to do with an assembly in heaven with Jehovah, the angels and Satan. Again, I don't see any connection between this scripture and any pre-human existence. I do believe in angels as spirit creatures and that they are in heaven and are alive. The only Biblical record of angels coming to earth was before Noah's day. At the time of the flood, all angels, called demons, that forsook their position in heaven to become humans and father their high-breed of humans called Nephelim were never allowed to materialize again. Angels are not humans nor will they ever become humans again.
Mankind had a pre-mortal, pre-existent life in a spirit world prior to being born into human bodies on earth. Those who fought with Jesus in the battle against Lucifer and the rebellious spirit-brothers were rewarded - those most valiant with white skin.
It should be noted that the Bible teaches mankinds only existence is physical, had a beginning and for some, may have an end. It is not spiritual or angelic in form. God is not partial. So black or brown skin is no less valued than white skinned humans. – 1Corinthians 15:46; Zechariah 12:1; Acts 17:26; Colossians 3:11
Although the Bible has said about death, there are many religions that have their own views. Consider first what the Bible has to say at Ecclesiastes 9:5, "for the living know that they shall die, but the dead note not a thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten." King James version and using the New World translation in vs 10 it says: all that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work, nor devising, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in Sheol the place to which you are going." Psalms 49:16-17 says: "do not be afraid because some men gain riches, because the glory of his house increases, for at his death he cannot take along anything at all ..." The commonly accepted teaching about the resurrection will be of no value unless there is a resurrection.
The Mormon teaching about becoming gods after death, about being involved in the celestial marriage a meeting with your long-lost loved ones after death in the heavens in a different realm certainly do not have its foundation in the Bible. Sections of this report dealing with the issue of life after death are section 7 entitled "On the issue of the celestial marriage" and section 9 entitled "The Mormon family of God's" Selecting specific issues the Mormon teach about death, they say, "Mormons also believe that the spirit of man not only never dies, but that lives stages of eternal progression, that man may ultimately become advancement of stages as intelligent and as on the potent as God himself. Journal of discourses volume 4 comp 283. "And you have got to learn how to become God yourselves, the same as all gods have done before you." Of course is teaching demands that you dying first before you can become that desired for position to be a god. "The gods dwelt the heavens from which are spirits came, are beings who have been redeemed the grave, with their wives, and will be supremely happy. All endearing ties conjugal love existed in their bosoms when terrestrial and fallen beings are now greatly increased an perfected." Statement gleaned from the possible from the apostle Pratt the Seer volume 1, 11, page 23 and volume 3 page 27. However, should be remembered that only the devil promised man that he could be like God. Genesis 3:1-5 stating that "... You positively will not die, for God knows that in the very day of your eating from it, your eyes are bound to be open and you're bound to be like God, ..." Therefore it becomes clear to the reasoning reader that if there were any life after death in any form anywhere that God would have to become the liar and Satan is telling the truth. No other writing from the true God whatever different context with this simple confirmed statement.
As with all my research, it is ongoing and always under construction. So whatever you may be reading, there's a good chance it will change by the time you read it a second time. As I learn more about the Mormon teaching, I will post it and revise what I have written.
First of all, this is not a belief shared only by the Mormons. I have discovered that thousands if not millions of others including those claiming to be Buddhists and Hindus believe that they too have lived before. They believe that something within them, some call it the soul, the spirit, the inner you or the real you, survives death and is reborn in one or more successive existences. This "something" returns in human, or as some say even vegetable form. Most of them agree that the purpose of this is gradually to purify the soul or to leave the individual to ultimate perfection. So admittedly, the idea of having lived before and if perhaps even living again maybe fascinating, even comforting to some. But is it true? I found a quote from James E Talmadge who was reported to have written the "many scriptural proofs that the spirits of mankind existed prior to their earthly probation - a condition in which these intelligences lived and exercise their free agency before they assumed bodily tabernacles." Then referencing Jesus' proof of his preexistence he says, "it is consistent to infer that if Jesus' earthly birth was the union of a pre-existence or anti-mortal spirit with a mortal body, such also is the birth of every member of the human family."
On a side note, the Mormons claim is supported in part by Jesus' having had a pre-human existence. Thus his earthly sojourn was not designed to place him on earthly probation as though he were a sinner. On the contrary, he was perfect, a sinless human, able to redeem sinners, able to give his soul as a ransom in exchange for many. Matthew 20:28. So Jesus is one-of-a-kind, the one mediator between God and men. 1Timothy 2:5-6. His assignment of service on earth was temporary. After completing it, he would return to his real home, to heaven. In times past, invisible spirit creatures, angels, have all materialized visible human bodies that God's direction. Genesis 19:1 Luke 1:26-28 Then in Noah's day, some of them did so on their own initiative. Why? The selfish purpose of enjoying sexual relations with women. Genesis 6:2 Jude 6 clarifies their disobedience when it calls them, "Angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place." Clearly than heaven is the proper dwelling place for Angels, even as the earth for humans. Psalms 115:16, 1 Corinthians 15:39-40, Jesus actually became flesh when he came to earth. John 1:14, not so with these angels hereinafter referred to as demons, they simply materialize human bodies that they deserted at the time of the flood in order to return the spirit realm. Because of their revolt, God confined into the pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment. No longer could they materialize fleshly bodies to live on earth. 2Peter 2:4 it would seem that one major key in determining whether and have lived before not, either in the spirit realm or on earth, is to determine whether he has an immortal soul or not. Genesis 2:7 describes the creation of the first human soul this way: "and the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Here the soul is not described as something distinct and separate from the lifeless body. In fact, only after God energized the lifeless body of the breath of life, thus triggering into his reading, did the soul Adam come to life in when breathing stops the life force ceases, the body once again becomes lifeless. Man goes back to his ground; in that day's thoughts do perish. Psalms 146:4 he must been away for the day of his resurrection live again John 5:28-29. Meanwhile, there can be no work nor devising nor knowledge or wisdom in the death state Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10. In brief, the Bible teaches that when the person dies, the soul is dead. At Ezekiel 18:4, the Bible says that the soul dies. However, the Book of Mormon, at Alma 42:9, states: “The soul could never die.”
Mormons teach that Adam existed in heaven before he came to earth. If the Bible does not say that man lived in spirit form before you send that he came to be a physical being only as a result of that sin is Mormonism claims. To support this document men all men existed in heaven before they came to earth, they refer to Jeremiah's being known out by God and being appointed before he was born. However this is not proof of preexistence, rather is an obvious reference to a special instance of God's foreknowledge and ability to see the future and to specify that a certain individual would do a certain work and that he was set aside, ordained or appointed for it.
You referred to the disciples asking Jesus is the man born blind sin before birth, so you claim this proves that a man must have existed before birth elsewhere than on earth. Jesus denied this, so does Romans 9:11 "for when they had not yet been born, so I practice anything good or vile, in order that the purpose of God respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not a fun work, but upon the one who calls." (I question this item to a Mormon in his comment was to read the Scripture over and over in the under praise what it is really trying to say. He said listen to the spirit) I find that this scripture is in harmony with the rest of the Bible simply put, man did not have a pre-human existence before he became a man.
They further referred to God's asking Job where he was when first foundation was laid and implied that Job must therefore have been in existence at that time. Actually it was Jehovah showing that Job that he was not there, that he was not in existence and that he had none of the knowledge that God did. Actually, God knew Job was unable to answer, as in the case of a rhetorical question, thereby Job would then realize how lowly he was when compared to Him. Job 38:4-41 God here is showing Jobs' limited knowledge even ignorance of His forces.
This is a discussion between myself and a Mormon elder: I said, That there is no statement in the Bible that says that any man other than Christ was alive somewhere else before coming to the earth and implied that this is an important doctrine of Mormonism, but the apostles did not even mention this concept. I made this statement at the opening of this discussion that I was told by a Mormon about this concept, but was never shown in writing from any one of his publications anything that said before his human existence Jesus' name was Adam. It was my attempt in this conversation to discover just who "he" was either Jesus, Adam or God. The Mormon elder said "since all you go by his proof, why are you assuming with someone just told you is accurate? This is contrary to what you all believe. You want facts, then don't assume what someone says is accurate." My response, "I didn't accept what someone told me to be a fact. I questioned it to another Mormon, you! I asked you to support or deny this statement and if you supported it, please use the Bible in your defense, or if you deny it, then I will accept that as support of your belief that two Elders both agreed on the teaching. I am re-stating what another Mormon elder told me. Was he accurate?" I got no response.
My question on the same subject remains to all Mormons reading this as to whether or not Jesus, Michael the arch angel, the Great Prince and Adam were one and the same. In denying that they are, I use Daniel 12:1, where Michael is referred to as the Great Prince. In Revelation 12:7 it states that Michael and his angels battled. In Jude 9 it refers to Michael as having a dispute with the Devil. In each of these scriptures, I fail to see how Michael could be referred to as Adam? According to our understanding, the Great Prince, Michael, the Arch Angel & Jesus Christ are in fact one and the same. Our understanding is based on the activity in which Michael participates. Our understanding also shows that the Arch-Angel is the highest angel in the heavens. This could only be Jesus not the human called Adam who was condemned to death for disobedience.
ADAM-GOD DOCTRINE: Brigham Young proclaimed that Adam conceived Jesus and that Adam “is our Father our God, and the only God with whom we have to do.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 50, 51) This doctrine has officially been denounced by the modern LDS Church.
What would be the purpose of any pre-human existence if we weren't allowed to draw knowledge and experience from it? What would happen to our civilization and system as we now know it is every year our memories completely erased and we all started all over again learning from point -0- progress for one year and then had to restart all over again? Wouldn't that becomes quite frustrating. On a larger scale, the Mormon teaching is the same.
Isaiah 9:6 refers to a child being born that would come to be a mighty God, as well as the Prince of peace and discussed that the government would be upon his shoulder. Also in Daniel 12:1 states that "Michael the great Prince will stand up …" Both scriptures here refer to a Prince. It is only logical to conclude that this Prince is the Arch-angel himself are the highest angel Jesus Christ. The true God would never allow himself causes of in any writing referred to as a prince.
In discussion with another Mormon Elder, I asked "Where do you get your understanding that Adam & any other men besides Jesus Christ existed in heaven before coming to earth?" The Elder referred to Hebrews 12:9 where it says, "Furthermore, we used to have fathers who were of our flesh to discipline us, and we used to give them respect. Shall we not much more subject ourselves to the Father of our spiritual life and live?" It is my understanding this scripture is not referred to having a previous life in heaven, rather states as we give respect for fleshly father, how much more we do God as our spiritual father because through his provisions we became humans here on earth.
Another scripture you referenced was Romans 9:11 which says, "for when they had not yet been born nor had practiced anything good or vile, in order that the purpose of God respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not upon works, but upon the One who calls," I asked, "if they hadn't done anything good or vile, what had they been doing? The Mormon comment, "read over the scripture and pray over it, you'll get the answer." This to me was a shallow response and fails to defend the Mormon belief. The Mormon Elder than referred to Proverbs 8:22-31, Jeremiah 1:5, Numbers 16:22, and Job 1:6. I researched these scriptures. Proverbs 8:22-31 discusses what Wisdom is. It is my understanding that Jesus is wisdom personified and in no way does Proverbs chapter 8 refer in any degree to all mankind. Jeremiah 1:5 simply refers to the wisdom & understanding Jehovah God has of his own creation. I have no idea how Mormons could mis-apply Numbers 16:22 saying that it has anything to do with human pre-existence. The scripture reads, "At this they fell upon their faces and said: “O God, the God of the spirits of every sort of flesh, will just one man sin and you become indignant against the entire assembly?” So I'll just have to pass on that debate until I get a better Mormon response. Job 1:6 has to do with an assembly in heaven with Jehovah, the angels and Satan. Again, I don't see any connection between this scripture and any pre-human existence. I do believe in angels as spirit creatures and that they are in heaven and are alive. The only Biblical record of angels coming to earth was before Noah's day. At the time of the flood, all angels, called demons, that forsook their position in heaven to become humans and father their high-breed of humans called Nephelim were never allowed to materialize again. Angels are not humans nor will they ever become humans again.
Mankind had a pre-mortal, pre-existent life in a spirit world prior to being born into human bodies on earth. Those who fought with Jesus in the battle against Lucifer and the rebellious spirit-brothers were rewarded - those most valiant with white skin.
It should be noted that the Bible teaches mankinds only existence is physical, had a beginning and for some, may have an end. It is not spiritual or angelic in form. God is not partial. So black or brown skin is no less valued than white skinned humans. – 1Corinthians 15:46; Zechariah 12:1; Acts 17:26; Colossians 3:11
Although the Bible has said about death, there are many religions that have their own views. Consider first what the Bible has to say at Ecclesiastes 9:5, "for the living know that they shall die, but the dead note not a thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten." King James version and using the New World translation in vs 10 it says: all that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work, nor devising, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in Sheol the place to which you are going." Psalms 49:16-17 says: "do not be afraid because some men gain riches, because the glory of his house increases, for at his death he cannot take along anything at all ..." The commonly accepted teaching about the resurrection will be of no value unless there is a resurrection.
The Mormon teaching about becoming gods after death, about being involved in the celestial marriage a meeting with your long-lost loved ones after death in the heavens in a different realm certainly do not have its foundation in the Bible. Sections of this report dealing with the issue of life after death are section 7 entitled "On the issue of the celestial marriage" and section 9 entitled "The Mormon family of God's" Selecting specific issues the Mormon teach about death, they say, "Mormons also believe that the spirit of man not only never dies, but that lives stages of eternal progression, that man may ultimately become advancement of stages as intelligent and as on the potent as God himself. Journal of discourses volume 4 comp 283. "And you have got to learn how to become God yourselves, the same as all gods have done before you." Of course is teaching demands that you dying first before you can become that desired for position to be a god. "The gods dwelt the heavens from which are spirits came, are beings who have been redeemed the grave, with their wives, and will be supremely happy. All endearing ties conjugal love existed in their bosoms when terrestrial and fallen beings are now greatly increased an perfected." Statement gleaned from the possible from the apostle Pratt the Seer volume 1, 11, page 23 and volume 3 page 27. However, should be remembered that only the devil promised man that he could be like God. Genesis 3:1-5 stating that "... You positively will not die, for God knows that in the very day of your eating from it, your eyes are bound to be open and you're bound to be like God, ..." Therefore it becomes clear to the reasoning reader that if there were any life after death in any form anywhere that God would have to become the liar and Satan is telling the truth. No other writing from the true God whatever different context with this simple confirmed statement.
As with all my research, it is ongoing and always under construction. So whatever you may be reading, there's a good chance it will change by the time you read it a second time. As I learn more about the Mormon teaching, I will post it and revise what I have written.
3. The Mormons, Nationalism & Politics
3. THE MORMONS, NATIONALISM AND POLITICS
I have always believed that it is an unfair assessment of the situation to dig into the archives of the group passed and say that this is what they believed today, unless today they remain active in the same activity.
This is what I have discovered about the Mormons activity and governments around the world. Joseph Smith, the prophet, seer, rebel leader, according to Mormon belief was also a mayor, treasurer, Lieut. Gen. and US presidential candidate. Following his lead many Mormons are energetic political activists. The church is proud of its American Heritage and asserts that God directed the writing of the U.S. Constitution. Brigham Young said, "when … The kingdom of God will bear rule, the flag of the United States will probably flutter unsullied on the Flagstaff liberty and equal rights, without a spot." Article 12 of the articles of faith states: "we believe in being subject to Kings, presidents, rulers and magistrates in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law." How far does this objection go? When United States entered World War I, Elder Stefan L Richards affirmed: "there is no more loyal people to the government of the United States and the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints." Another elder was quoted as saying, "When we fight we will conquer by the power of God." Article 12 applied on the other side of the battlefield as well. Prof. Christine E King of Staffordshire University wrote, "German Mormons were encouraged to bear arms for their country and to pray for her victory." The church said they were fighting not British and American Mormon brethren, but government representatives. Such a distinction, although transparent, served to salve the moral and religious doubts of German Mormons. When Hitler seized power, the Mormon policy of wholehearted support continued. "The Nazis met no resistance or evidence of criticism from the Mormon church," wrote Dr. King. Mormon stress on racial purity and patriotism serve the church well and too many Mormons, the links between their faith in the politics of the Third Reich were clear. When several Mormons declared to defy Hitler, they receive no backing from the Mormon officials in Germany. The church is patriotic and loyal and decried any attack on the Nazi government. The church even excommunicated one dissident (a person deemed to be a deserter of one's faith) after the Nazis had executed him. My research showed this man's name to be Helmut Hubener. Then later I read that he had been reinstated in 1948. I read in the book of Mormon at Alma 26:32 that "they would rather sacrifice their lives and even to take the life of their enemy; and they have buried their weapons of war deep in the earth, because of their love toward their brethren." In my commentary, Jesus reason with Pilate: "if my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews" John 18:36. His disciples were not take up arms in defense of God's own son, let alone in war between governments. There were even to love their enemies Matthew 5:44, 2 Corinthians 10:3-4. It would seem that even the Mormons should believe these scriptures and all other teachings found in the Bible. Brigham Young made the statement in Journal of discourses volume 13 page 236: "we take this book, the Bible, for I guide, for our rule of action; we take is the foundation of our faith. It points the way to salvation." Then from the publication discourses of Brigham Young stated "pick up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter Day Saints with it, and see if it will stand the test."
As with all my research, it is ongoing and always under construction. So whatever you may be reading, there's a good chance it will change by the time you read it a second time. As I learn more about the Mormon teaching, I will post it and revise what I have written.
I have always believed that it is an unfair assessment of the situation to dig into the archives of the group passed and say that this is what they believed today, unless today they remain active in the same activity.
This is what I have discovered about the Mormons activity and governments around the world. Joseph Smith, the prophet, seer, rebel leader, according to Mormon belief was also a mayor, treasurer, Lieut. Gen. and US presidential candidate. Following his lead many Mormons are energetic political activists. The church is proud of its American Heritage and asserts that God directed the writing of the U.S. Constitution. Brigham Young said, "when … The kingdom of God will bear rule, the flag of the United States will probably flutter unsullied on the Flagstaff liberty and equal rights, without a spot." Article 12 of the articles of faith states: "we believe in being subject to Kings, presidents, rulers and magistrates in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law." How far does this objection go? When United States entered World War I, Elder Stefan L Richards affirmed: "there is no more loyal people to the government of the United States and the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints." Another elder was quoted as saying, "When we fight we will conquer by the power of God." Article 12 applied on the other side of the battlefield as well. Prof. Christine E King of Staffordshire University wrote, "German Mormons were encouraged to bear arms for their country and to pray for her victory." The church said they were fighting not British and American Mormon brethren, but government representatives. Such a distinction, although transparent, served to salve the moral and religious doubts of German Mormons. When Hitler seized power, the Mormon policy of wholehearted support continued. "The Nazis met no resistance or evidence of criticism from the Mormon church," wrote Dr. King. Mormon stress on racial purity and patriotism serve the church well and too many Mormons, the links between their faith in the politics of the Third Reich were clear. When several Mormons declared to defy Hitler, they receive no backing from the Mormon officials in Germany. The church is patriotic and loyal and decried any attack on the Nazi government. The church even excommunicated one dissident (a person deemed to be a deserter of one's faith) after the Nazis had executed him. My research showed this man's name to be Helmut Hubener. Then later I read that he had been reinstated in 1948. I read in the book of Mormon at Alma 26:32 that "they would rather sacrifice their lives and even to take the life of their enemy; and they have buried their weapons of war deep in the earth, because of their love toward their brethren." In my commentary, Jesus reason with Pilate: "if my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews" John 18:36. His disciples were not take up arms in defense of God's own son, let alone in war between governments. There were even to love their enemies Matthew 5:44, 2 Corinthians 10:3-4. It would seem that even the Mormons should believe these scriptures and all other teachings found in the Bible. Brigham Young made the statement in Journal of discourses volume 13 page 236: "we take this book, the Bible, for I guide, for our rule of action; we take is the foundation of our faith. It points the way to salvation." Then from the publication discourses of Brigham Young stated "pick up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter Day Saints with it, and see if it will stand the test."
As with all my research, it is ongoing and always under construction. So whatever you may be reading, there's a good chance it will change by the time you read it a second time. As I learn more about the Mormon teaching, I will post it and revise what I have written.
2. Mormon Holy Writings, "Books"
In any discussion I would have with a Mormon, I would always agree to sit down and discuss doctrines but only using the Bible. Since it is my firm belief that any doctrinal truth could be established by using either the Bible or a literature that agreed with the Bible. Mormons that I talked with always insisted that the Book of Mormon and the Bible are equal and supportive of each other. This discussion and cross reference from the Bible to the Book of Mormon shows otherwise. A little about the Book or Mormon:
It is claimed by Mormons that God continued to call prophets among these people. The Book of Mormon is a collection of the writings of their prophets and record keepers. I believe that it is claimed to have been assembled by Joseph Smith, but I could be wrong on this. It is named after Mormon, one of the last of these ancient prophets. These prophets claimed to have known about Heavenly Father’s plan for His children and the mission of Jesus Christ. They recorded that Christ appeared, after His Resurrection, to the people in America, taught them His gospel, and formed His Church among them. The book contains the teachings of Jesus Christ, testifying of His Atonement and His love. They further claim that it (the Book of Mormon) supports and verifies the Bible. In this blog, this should be come evident with a cross reference from the Book of Mormon to the Bible as to whether or not this claim is true and accurate.
The Book of Mormon concludes with a great promise that those who read it and sincerely pray about it can know by the Holy Ghost that it is true (Moroni 10:4).
The Book of Mormon is claimed to be a sacred text of the Latter Day Saint movement, which adherents believe contains writings of ancient prophets who lived on the American continent from approximately 2200 BC to AD 421. It was first published in March 1830 by Joseph Smith as The Book of Mormon: An Account Written by the Hand of Mormon upon Plates Taken from the Plates of Nephi.
According to Smith's account, and also according to the book's narrative, the Book of Mormon was originally written in otherwise unknown characters referred to as "reformed Egyptian" engraved on golden plates. Smith claimed that the last prophet to contribute to the book, a man named Moroni, buried it in a hill in present-day New York and then returned to earth in 1827 as an angel, revealing the location of the book to Smith and instructing him to translate and disseminate it as evidence of the restoration of Christ's true church in the latter days.
The Book of Mormon has a number of original and distinctive doctrinal discussions on subjects such as the fall of Adam and Eve, the nature of the Atonement, eschatology, redemption from physical and spiritual death, and the organization of the latter-day church. The pivotal event of the book is an appearance of Jesus Christ to the Americas shortly after his resurrection.
The Book of Mormon is the earliest of the unique writings of the Latter Day Saint movement, the denominations of which typically regard the text not only as scripture but also as a historical record of God's dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas. The Book of Mormon is divided into smaller books, titled after the individuals named as primary authors and, in most versions, divided into chapters and verses. It is written in English, very similar to the Early Modern English linguistic style of the King James Version of the Bible, and has since been fully or partially translated into 108 languages.
Joseph Smith claimed to have had another vision in 1829 which time John the Baptist appeared to him as a heavenly messenger and conferred upon him and his associate Oliver Cowdery the priesthood of Aaron, after which they baptized one another secretly. Now Joseph Smith claims that their purpose as a religious organization is that of bringing men and women for knowledge of the eternal truth that Jesus Christ is the Redeemer Savior of the world. If this is your claim and you should in harmony with Paul's words and warning it Galatians 1:8 "but though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that you have preached unto you let him be accursed" referring specifically to the book of Mormon in comparison to the Bible. In addition to the Bible and the book of Mormon, the LDS continue to recognize a number of other writings. Doctrine and covenants this is primarily a collection of what Joseph Smith called revelations from God. These have been revised at times as doctrinal and historical developments dictated. The pearl of great price this book contains Joseph Smiths' revisions Bible book of Genesis, the 24th chapter of Matthew and Smith personal history. It also has the Smith translation of a papyrus he purchased in 1835. He declared it to be Abrahams writing that told how an angel saved him when he was a priest and tried to sacrifice him on an alter. The papyrus was relocated 1967 and examined by a number of Egyptologists. They found, said one report "not a single word of Joseph Smith's alleged translation bore any resemblance to the contents of this document." It turned out to be the Book of Breathings an Egyptian funeral document buried with the dead. Smith's original manuscript shows that he used 136 English words to translate the Egyptian hieroglyphics for the word "Lake." Joseph Smith's translation of the Bible in 1830, Smith began a revision of the King James version of the Bible which he never completed. He revised some 3400 versus and added much material including a prophecy at the end of Genesis about his own coming as a "choice Seer." Since the manuscript remained with Smith's widow who did not follow Brigham Young, the salt lake church seldom quotes from it, though it is accepted as correct. Further inspired doctrines these may be handed down by the churches living profit at any time and are equal in authority to the holy Bible. The King Follett discourse presented in 1844 is one example. Smith gave this funeral sermon for Elder King Follett in which he explained the doctrine of deified man and humanized god. It appears in the Journal of Discourses a collection of lectures by Smith, young and other 19th-century Mormon authorities.
As for the Mormon Scripture Doctrine and Covenants, The book The Revelations of the Profit Joseph Smith by LDS scholar Linden W. Cook, explains ... And some revelations have been revised by those committees appointed to arrange them for publication, "significant textual additions and deletions have been noted." One such alteration is found at Book of Commandments 4:2 which said of Smith, "he has a gift to translate the book … I will grant him no other gift." But when the revelation was reprinted in 1835 in Doctrine and Covenants 5:4, it read: "for I will grant unto you no other gift until it is finished."
THE BIBLE OR THE BOOK OF MORMON, WHICH?
I asked the two Mormons from the Waialua Hawaii ward if they had to choose a reference point between the Bible and the book of Mormon which would they choose? The response was "that's an ignorant question." I said, "well to me it doesn't seem to be an ignorant question at all. I have been told by other Mormons that they would take the teachings of the Book of Mormon over the Bible instantly and that they believe the Bible to be secondary to the Book of Mormon." Consider the following data and judge for yourself. It would seem that the Mormons have more respect for their own writings than for the Bible. At least Orson Pratt seems to. For one of his books entitled "Divine authority of the Book of Mormon" he says something to this effect; if it be admitted that the apostles and evangelists did write the book of the New Testament that does not prove in itself that they were divinely inspired at the time they wrote and compile their works. With all the uncertainty of the translation who in his right mind for one moment would suppose the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? Who knows that even one verse of the whole Bible has escaped pollution and swears to convey the same sense now that it did in the original?
Mormonism teaches that the 15 books of the Book of Mormon are also inspired of God. As far as their belief goes, I have learned they believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. According to the eighth article of the Mormon articles of faith states we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. I read that Elder Bruce R McConkie stated: "there are no people on earth who hold the Bible in such a high esteem as Mormons do… But we do not believe… The Bible contains all things necessary for salvation." Pres. Gordon B Hinckley states that "the numerous different sects and churches bear witness to the inadequacy of the Bible." A study of the Articles of Faith urges "let the Bible then be read reverently and with careful care the reader ever seeking the light of the spirit that he may discern between truth and errors of men." Further information discovered was that it was in 1820 that Joseph Smith had his first vision claiming that while standing alone in the woods vision of two white personages standing about who told him not to join in the church. These personages, it is claimed, were the heavenly father and his son Jesus Christ. Three years later he said that he had another vision. This time a heavenly messenger who called himself Moroni told him of a hidden book written on golden plates. Following instructions from the messenger he said he removed the plates from their hiding place after waiting for years. These golden plates are supposed to be the Book of Mormon.
There are fifteen 'books' in The Book Of Mormon:
The First Book of Nephi (1 Nephi)
The Second Book of Nephi (2 Nephi)
The Book of Jacob
The Book of Enos
The Book of Jarom
The Book of Omni
The Words of Mormon (Words of Mormon)
The Book of Mosiah
The Book of Alma
The Book of Helaman
The Third Book of Nephi (3 Nephi)
The Fourth Book of Nephi (4 Nephi)
The Book of Mormon
The Book of Ether
The Book of Moroni
The Mormon attitude towards the Scriptures may be seen in the following quotation: "Wilford Woodruff is a prophet, and I know that he has a great many prophets around him and he can make Scriptures as good as there are in the Bible." From the apostle JW Taylor, "the living oracles are worth more to the LDS that all the Bibles" from apostle MW Merrill at the conference Salt Lake City. Can you imagine the head of a religious organization making statements like the foregoing and it pretending before the outsiders that Mormonism is based on the Bible? A comment from a Mormon elder said, "we believe in the Bible as part is translated correctly. 8th article of faith, but seeing the Bible has been translated so many times of course scripters will be distorted. But the Bible is inspired. The book of Mormon has only been translated once by Joseph Smith a prophet like Moses and Abraham. So would it be the most correct? Read the book of Mormon and see if Joseph Smith could have written it." My response was, it becomes difficult to believe that a Mormon would even own a Bible. The publication in the book of Mormon taken from 2 Nephi 29:6 states, "Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible." This is an interesting statement when the Bible says in Galatians 1:8 "though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you let him be accursed."
Research has shown that the book of Mormon quotes extensively from the King James version of the Bible. It is curious though that Joseph Smith quoted so often from a publication that he also claims was reported by him to be full of errors. Another curious situation is that the book of Mormon was said to be translated by "the gift and power of God" has itself undergone numerous changes in grammar, spelling and substance. For instance there is apparent confusion over the identity of "the eternal father." According to the first edition at 1Nephi 13:40, "the Lamb of God is the "eternal father." Then later addition say that the Lamb of God is the son of the eternal father. The student original 1830 manuscripts of the book of Mormon still exist. One of the two originals, held by the reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of LDS, has the words the son added between the lines. All the while claiming to accept the Bible's authority, in case of disagreement, LDS doctrine necessarily assigns greater weight to the words of their profits. Joseph Smith has been quoted to say that "the book of Mormon is the most correct of any book on earth and is the keystone of our religion." One of the golden plates was said to have been the source for his writings. 11 Mormons testified that they saw the plates. Upon completion of the document, Smith said the plates were taken to heaven. Thus they are not available for textual analysis.
There are some chronological sequence problems in the book of Mormon. Acts 11:26 says that "the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." But Alma 46:15 says, "And those who did belong to the church were faithful; yea, all those who were true believers in Christ took upon them, gladly, the name of Christ, or Christians as they were called, because of their belief in Christ who should come." It is my understanding that the Mormons use this scripture to describe events in 73 B.C.E or at least in times Before our Common Era. as Christians in America before Christ ever came to earth. Another scripture to support this migration to the Americas BCE is John 10:16 "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." In this scripture, The Mormons hold the belief that Jesus teaches His disciples that His work would not be complete with just the instruction He was giving to those in Israel. There were others that would hear His voice. The Mormons teach that after His resurrection, Jesus went and visited these ‘other sheep’ in the Americas.
Many places in the Bibles accounts still exist or can be cross-referenced to a city that had a name change at the same location. But in the book of Mormon locations of virtually all sites named herein such as Gimgimno and Zeezrom are unknown. I could find no cross-reference to these places under any of the names.
The Pearl of great Price tells of a Charles Anthon who shown a copy of some of the inscriptions and declared them to be authentic and the translation accurate. This story appears to be inconsistent with Smith's claim that he alone had the gift to translate the language of the plates, "the knowledge of which was lost to the world." Could professor Anthon verify correct the text could not read and therefore could not translate?
SOME SIGNIFICANT CONTRADICTIONS IN LDS HOLY BOOKS:
BIBLE: Nothing would be lost from Scripture (Matthew 24:35; 1 Peter 1:24-25; Isaiah 40:8)
BOOK OF MORMON: Many “plain and most precious” doctrines were lost from the Bible. (1 Nephi 13:26, 28)
BOOK OF MORMON: God dwells in the heart of the righteous. (Alma 34:36)
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS: God does not dwell in man’s heart. (Section 130:3)
BOOK OF MORMON: God is a “spirit.” (Alma 18:24-28; 22:9-11; 31:15)
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS: God has a body of “flesh and bones.” (Section 130:22)
BOOK OF MORMON: Murder is forgiven. (Alma 24:10)
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS: Murder is unforgivable. (Section 42:79)
Referencing The Bible - I stated that I often use the New World translation of the police Scriptures together my information. I have found that this translation was taken from the original Greek as well as original manuscripts where possible in the Hebrew language. The translators have used all available sources to translate this book into the English language as well as other languages. Isn't it possible for the true God to create a little book just as he would desire it and then be able to preserve it as he pleases for a few hundred years when considering that he could create an entire universe just the way he and he desired it? In the light of second Timothy 3:16-17, how could we be completely equipped for every good work if the Bible and its instructions were incomplete? It is my understanding that the Bible as it stands today is the accurate word of God.
Various doctrinal statements taken from various Mormon publications not in agreement with the Bible. Is it possible that God inspired both? At some point in time, I would think that a reader with insight as identified in psalm 53:2 would have to make a determination that one is correct and that the other is not.
Book of Mormon says: Man is a fool if he thinks the Bible is sufficient,
Book of Mormon - 2Nephi 29:6
The Bible - 2Peter 1:1-3 Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith, held in equal privilege with ours, by the righteousness of our God and [the] Savior Jesus Christ: 2 May undeserved kindness and peace be increased to YOU by an accurate knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 forasmuch as his divine power has given us freely all the things that concern life and godly devotion, through the accurate knowledge of the one who called us through glory and virtue.
2Peter 3:1-2 Beloved ones, this is now the second letter I am writing YOU, in which, as in my first one, I am arousing YOUR clear thinking faculties by way of a reminder, (2) that YOU should remember the sayings previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through YOUR apostles.
2Timothy 3:15-17 and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through the faith in connection with Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
Book of Mormon says: Jesus was born in Jerusalem
Book of Mormon - Alma 7:10
The Bible - Matthew 2:1-6, After Jesus had been born in Beth′le·hem+ of Ju·de′a in the days of Herod+ the king, look! astrologers*+ from eastern parts came to Jerusalem, 2 saying: “Where is the one born king+ of the Jews? For we saw his star+ [when we were] in the east,* and we have come to do him obeisance.” 3 At hearing this King Herod was agitated, and all Jerusalem along with him; 4 and on gathering together all the chief priests and scribes of the people he began to inquire of them where the Christ* was to be born. 5 They said to him: “In Beth′le·hem of Ju·de′a; for this is how it has been written through the prophet, 6 ‘And you, O Beth′le·hem of the land of Judah, are by no means the most insignificant [city] among the governors* of Judah; for out of you will come forth a governing one, who will shepherd my people, Israel.’”
Micah 5:2 “And you, O Beth′le·hem Eph′ra·thah, the one too little to get to be among the thousands of Judah, from you there will come out to me the one who is to become ruler in Israel, whose origin is from early times, from the days of time indefinite.
Book of Mormon says: Without sin, there would have been no children
Book of Mormon - Nephi 2:25
Pearl of Great Price - Moses 5:11
The Bible - Genesis 1:28 Further, God blessed+ them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”
Book of Mormon says: Adam and Eve left Eden in great joy
Book of Mormon - 2Nephi 2:22-25
The Bible - Genesis 3:24, And so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of E′den the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.
Romans 5:12, That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned
1Corinthians 15:22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive
Book of Mormon says: Adams sin, enabling us to be born, brought life
Book of Mormon - 2Nephi 2:23
The Bible - 1Corinithians 15:22, Romans 5:12,14,19, 1Timothy 2:14
Book of Mormon says: The soul could never die
Book of Mormon - Alma 42:9
The Bible - Ezekiel 18:4,20 Psalms 78:50 Genesis 3:4 Genesis 2:17
Book of Mormon says: They (men) shall build New Jerusalem
Book of Mormon - 3Nephi 21:23-24
Note: The Book of Mormon contradicts itself on this point, for at Ether 13:3 refers to the New Jerusalem which should come down out of heaven
The Bible - Revelation 21:2
Pearl of Great Price says: Joseph Smith claims to have seen God and Jesus Christ
Pearl of Great Price - P. 48
The Bible - Exodus 33:20 1John 4:12 1Timothy 6:16 Colossians 1:15
Book of Mormon says: God is both the father and son
Book of Mormon - Mosiah 15:2-3 3:5 Ether 4:14
The Bible - John 14:28 Eph 4:6
Book of Mormon says: After his ascension, Christ showed his body to them
Book of Mormon - 3Nephi 10:18-19
The Bible - John 14:19 1Peter 3:18 Acts 9:3-5
Book of Mormon says: Hell hath no end
Book of Mormon - 1Nepohi 14:3
The Bible - Revelation 20:14
Book of Mormon says: The discovered doctrines in North America were left by the lost tribes of Israel
Book of Mormon - 3Nephi 17:4
The Bible - Acts 26:6-7 15:24
Mormons teach many other new or different doctrines: These will be looked up later
1 Adam is a superior person;
2 The soul is immortal
3 Polygamy is permitted
4 There will be new revelations after the completion of the Bible
5 It is acceptable that there be a Baptism of the dead
Book of Mormon -
The Bible - Galatians 1:8-9
Mormons recognize that there are literally hundreds of translations of the Bible (some of which contradict each other)
The Bible says that "All scripture is inspired and beneficial for teaching, reproving and setting things straight." Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Bible is complete and in that all scriptures are in agreement. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jehovah is that author of the Bible and that as the author, he did not make a mistake.
As with all my research, it is ongoing and always under construction. So whatever you may be reading, there's a good chance it will change by the time you read it a second time. As I learn more about the Mormon teaching, I will post it and revise what I have written.
It is claimed by Mormons that God continued to call prophets among these people. The Book of Mormon is a collection of the writings of their prophets and record keepers. I believe that it is claimed to have been assembled by Joseph Smith, but I could be wrong on this. It is named after Mormon, one of the last of these ancient prophets. These prophets claimed to have known about Heavenly Father’s plan for His children and the mission of Jesus Christ. They recorded that Christ appeared, after His Resurrection, to the people in America, taught them His gospel, and formed His Church among them. The book contains the teachings of Jesus Christ, testifying of His Atonement and His love. They further claim that it (the Book of Mormon) supports and verifies the Bible. In this blog, this should be come evident with a cross reference from the Book of Mormon to the Bible as to whether or not this claim is true and accurate.
The Book of Mormon concludes with a great promise that those who read it and sincerely pray about it can know by the Holy Ghost that it is true (Moroni 10:4).
The Book of Mormon is claimed to be a sacred text of the Latter Day Saint movement, which adherents believe contains writings of ancient prophets who lived on the American continent from approximately 2200 BC to AD 421. It was first published in March 1830 by Joseph Smith as The Book of Mormon: An Account Written by the Hand of Mormon upon Plates Taken from the Plates of Nephi.
According to Smith's account, and also according to the book's narrative, the Book of Mormon was originally written in otherwise unknown characters referred to as "reformed Egyptian" engraved on golden plates. Smith claimed that the last prophet to contribute to the book, a man named Moroni, buried it in a hill in present-day New York and then returned to earth in 1827 as an angel, revealing the location of the book to Smith and instructing him to translate and disseminate it as evidence of the restoration of Christ's true church in the latter days.
The Book of Mormon has a number of original and distinctive doctrinal discussions on subjects such as the fall of Adam and Eve, the nature of the Atonement, eschatology, redemption from physical and spiritual death, and the organization of the latter-day church. The pivotal event of the book is an appearance of Jesus Christ to the Americas shortly after his resurrection.
The Book of Mormon is the earliest of the unique writings of the Latter Day Saint movement, the denominations of which typically regard the text not only as scripture but also as a historical record of God's dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas. The Book of Mormon is divided into smaller books, titled after the individuals named as primary authors and, in most versions, divided into chapters and verses. It is written in English, very similar to the Early Modern English linguistic style of the King James Version of the Bible, and has since been fully or partially translated into 108 languages.
Joseph Smith claimed to have had another vision in 1829 which time John the Baptist appeared to him as a heavenly messenger and conferred upon him and his associate Oliver Cowdery the priesthood of Aaron, after which they baptized one another secretly. Now Joseph Smith claims that their purpose as a religious organization is that of bringing men and women for knowledge of the eternal truth that Jesus Christ is the Redeemer Savior of the world. If this is your claim and you should in harmony with Paul's words and warning it Galatians 1:8 "but though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that you have preached unto you let him be accursed" referring specifically to the book of Mormon in comparison to the Bible. In addition to the Bible and the book of Mormon, the LDS continue to recognize a number of other writings. Doctrine and covenants this is primarily a collection of what Joseph Smith called revelations from God. These have been revised at times as doctrinal and historical developments dictated. The pearl of great price this book contains Joseph Smiths' revisions Bible book of Genesis, the 24th chapter of Matthew and Smith personal history. It also has the Smith translation of a papyrus he purchased in 1835. He declared it to be Abrahams writing that told how an angel saved him when he was a priest and tried to sacrifice him on an alter. The papyrus was relocated 1967 and examined by a number of Egyptologists. They found, said one report "not a single word of Joseph Smith's alleged translation bore any resemblance to the contents of this document." It turned out to be the Book of Breathings an Egyptian funeral document buried with the dead. Smith's original manuscript shows that he used 136 English words to translate the Egyptian hieroglyphics for the word "Lake." Joseph Smith's translation of the Bible in 1830, Smith began a revision of the King James version of the Bible which he never completed. He revised some 3400 versus and added much material including a prophecy at the end of Genesis about his own coming as a "choice Seer." Since the manuscript remained with Smith's widow who did not follow Brigham Young, the salt lake church seldom quotes from it, though it is accepted as correct. Further inspired doctrines these may be handed down by the churches living profit at any time and are equal in authority to the holy Bible. The King Follett discourse presented in 1844 is one example. Smith gave this funeral sermon for Elder King Follett in which he explained the doctrine of deified man and humanized god. It appears in the Journal of Discourses a collection of lectures by Smith, young and other 19th-century Mormon authorities.
As for the Mormon Scripture Doctrine and Covenants, The book The Revelations of the Profit Joseph Smith by LDS scholar Linden W. Cook, explains ... And some revelations have been revised by those committees appointed to arrange them for publication, "significant textual additions and deletions have been noted." One such alteration is found at Book of Commandments 4:2 which said of Smith, "he has a gift to translate the book … I will grant him no other gift." But when the revelation was reprinted in 1835 in Doctrine and Covenants 5:4, it read: "for I will grant unto you no other gift until it is finished."
THE BIBLE OR THE BOOK OF MORMON, WHICH?
I asked the two Mormons from the Waialua Hawaii ward if they had to choose a reference point between the Bible and the book of Mormon which would they choose? The response was "that's an ignorant question." I said, "well to me it doesn't seem to be an ignorant question at all. I have been told by other Mormons that they would take the teachings of the Book of Mormon over the Bible instantly and that they believe the Bible to be secondary to the Book of Mormon." Consider the following data and judge for yourself. It would seem that the Mormons have more respect for their own writings than for the Bible. At least Orson Pratt seems to. For one of his books entitled "Divine authority of the Book of Mormon" he says something to this effect; if it be admitted that the apostles and evangelists did write the book of the New Testament that does not prove in itself that they were divinely inspired at the time they wrote and compile their works. With all the uncertainty of the translation who in his right mind for one moment would suppose the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? Who knows that even one verse of the whole Bible has escaped pollution and swears to convey the same sense now that it did in the original?
Mormonism teaches that the 15 books of the Book of Mormon are also inspired of God. As far as their belief goes, I have learned they believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. According to the eighth article of the Mormon articles of faith states we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. I read that Elder Bruce R McConkie stated: "there are no people on earth who hold the Bible in such a high esteem as Mormons do… But we do not believe… The Bible contains all things necessary for salvation." Pres. Gordon B Hinckley states that "the numerous different sects and churches bear witness to the inadequacy of the Bible." A study of the Articles of Faith urges "let the Bible then be read reverently and with careful care the reader ever seeking the light of the spirit that he may discern between truth and errors of men." Further information discovered was that it was in 1820 that Joseph Smith had his first vision claiming that while standing alone in the woods vision of two white personages standing about who told him not to join in the church. These personages, it is claimed, were the heavenly father and his son Jesus Christ. Three years later he said that he had another vision. This time a heavenly messenger who called himself Moroni told him of a hidden book written on golden plates. Following instructions from the messenger he said he removed the plates from their hiding place after waiting for years. These golden plates are supposed to be the Book of Mormon.
There are fifteen 'books' in The Book Of Mormon:
The First Book of Nephi (1 Nephi)
The Second Book of Nephi (2 Nephi)
The Book of Jacob
The Book of Enos
The Book of Jarom
The Book of Omni
The Words of Mormon (Words of Mormon)
The Book of Mosiah
The Book of Alma
The Book of Helaman
The Third Book of Nephi (3 Nephi)
The Fourth Book of Nephi (4 Nephi)
The Book of Mormon
The Book of Ether
The Book of Moroni
The Mormon attitude towards the Scriptures may be seen in the following quotation: "Wilford Woodruff is a prophet, and I know that he has a great many prophets around him and he can make Scriptures as good as there are in the Bible." From the apostle JW Taylor, "the living oracles are worth more to the LDS that all the Bibles" from apostle MW Merrill at the conference Salt Lake City. Can you imagine the head of a religious organization making statements like the foregoing and it pretending before the outsiders that Mormonism is based on the Bible? A comment from a Mormon elder said, "we believe in the Bible as part is translated correctly. 8th article of faith, but seeing the Bible has been translated so many times of course scripters will be distorted. But the Bible is inspired. The book of Mormon has only been translated once by Joseph Smith a prophet like Moses and Abraham. So would it be the most correct? Read the book of Mormon and see if Joseph Smith could have written it." My response was, it becomes difficult to believe that a Mormon would even own a Bible. The publication in the book of Mormon taken from 2 Nephi 29:6 states, "Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible." This is an interesting statement when the Bible says in Galatians 1:8 "though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you let him be accursed."
Research has shown that the book of Mormon quotes extensively from the King James version of the Bible. It is curious though that Joseph Smith quoted so often from a publication that he also claims was reported by him to be full of errors. Another curious situation is that the book of Mormon was said to be translated by "the gift and power of God" has itself undergone numerous changes in grammar, spelling and substance. For instance there is apparent confusion over the identity of "the eternal father." According to the first edition at 1Nephi 13:40, "the Lamb of God is the "eternal father." Then later addition say that the Lamb of God is the son of the eternal father. The student original 1830 manuscripts of the book of Mormon still exist. One of the two originals, held by the reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of LDS, has the words the son added between the lines. All the while claiming to accept the Bible's authority, in case of disagreement, LDS doctrine necessarily assigns greater weight to the words of their profits. Joseph Smith has been quoted to say that "the book of Mormon is the most correct of any book on earth and is the keystone of our religion." One of the golden plates was said to have been the source for his writings. 11 Mormons testified that they saw the plates. Upon completion of the document, Smith said the plates were taken to heaven. Thus they are not available for textual analysis.
There are some chronological sequence problems in the book of Mormon. Acts 11:26 says that "the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." But Alma 46:15 says, "And those who did belong to the church were faithful; yea, all those who were true believers in Christ took upon them, gladly, the name of Christ, or Christians as they were called, because of their belief in Christ who should come." It is my understanding that the Mormons use this scripture to describe events in 73 B.C.E or at least in times Before our Common Era. as Christians in America before Christ ever came to earth. Another scripture to support this migration to the Americas BCE is John 10:16 "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." In this scripture, The Mormons hold the belief that Jesus teaches His disciples that His work would not be complete with just the instruction He was giving to those in Israel. There were others that would hear His voice. The Mormons teach that after His resurrection, Jesus went and visited these ‘other sheep’ in the Americas.
Many places in the Bibles accounts still exist or can be cross-referenced to a city that had a name change at the same location. But in the book of Mormon locations of virtually all sites named herein such as Gimgimno and Zeezrom are unknown. I could find no cross-reference to these places under any of the names.
The Pearl of great Price tells of a Charles Anthon who shown a copy of some of the inscriptions and declared them to be authentic and the translation accurate. This story appears to be inconsistent with Smith's claim that he alone had the gift to translate the language of the plates, "the knowledge of which was lost to the world." Could professor Anthon verify correct the text could not read and therefore could not translate?
SOME SIGNIFICANT CONTRADICTIONS IN LDS HOLY BOOKS:
BIBLE: Nothing would be lost from Scripture (Matthew 24:35; 1 Peter 1:24-25; Isaiah 40:8)
BOOK OF MORMON: Many “plain and most precious” doctrines were lost from the Bible. (1 Nephi 13:26, 28)
BOOK OF MORMON: God dwells in the heart of the righteous. (Alma 34:36)
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS: God does not dwell in man’s heart. (Section 130:3)
BOOK OF MORMON: God is a “spirit.” (Alma 18:24-28; 22:9-11; 31:15)
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS: God has a body of “flesh and bones.” (Section 130:22)
BOOK OF MORMON: Murder is forgiven. (Alma 24:10)
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS: Murder is unforgivable. (Section 42:79)
Referencing The Bible - I stated that I often use the New World translation of the police Scriptures together my information. I have found that this translation was taken from the original Greek as well as original manuscripts where possible in the Hebrew language. The translators have used all available sources to translate this book into the English language as well as other languages. Isn't it possible for the true God to create a little book just as he would desire it and then be able to preserve it as he pleases for a few hundred years when considering that he could create an entire universe just the way he and he desired it? In the light of second Timothy 3:16-17, how could we be completely equipped for every good work if the Bible and its instructions were incomplete? It is my understanding that the Bible as it stands today is the accurate word of God.
Various doctrinal statements taken from various Mormon publications not in agreement with the Bible. Is it possible that God inspired both? At some point in time, I would think that a reader with insight as identified in psalm 53:2 would have to make a determination that one is correct and that the other is not.
Book of Mormon says: Man is a fool if he thinks the Bible is sufficient,
Book of Mormon - 2Nephi 29:6
The Bible - 2Peter 1:1-3 Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith, held in equal privilege with ours, by the righteousness of our God and [the] Savior Jesus Christ: 2 May undeserved kindness and peace be increased to YOU by an accurate knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 forasmuch as his divine power has given us freely all the things that concern life and godly devotion, through the accurate knowledge of the one who called us through glory and virtue.
2Peter 3:1-2 Beloved ones, this is now the second letter I am writing YOU, in which, as in my first one, I am arousing YOUR clear thinking faculties by way of a reminder, (2) that YOU should remember the sayings previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through YOUR apostles.
2Timothy 3:15-17 and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through the faith in connection with Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
Book of Mormon says: Jesus was born in Jerusalem
Book of Mormon - Alma 7:10
The Bible - Matthew 2:1-6, After Jesus had been born in Beth′le·hem+ of Ju·de′a in the days of Herod+ the king, look! astrologers*+ from eastern parts came to Jerusalem, 2 saying: “Where is the one born king+ of the Jews? For we saw his star+ [when we were] in the east,* and we have come to do him obeisance.” 3 At hearing this King Herod was agitated, and all Jerusalem along with him; 4 and on gathering together all the chief priests and scribes of the people he began to inquire of them where the Christ* was to be born. 5 They said to him: “In Beth′le·hem of Ju·de′a; for this is how it has been written through the prophet, 6 ‘And you, O Beth′le·hem of the land of Judah, are by no means the most insignificant [city] among the governors* of Judah; for out of you will come forth a governing one, who will shepherd my people, Israel.’”
Micah 5:2 “And you, O Beth′le·hem Eph′ra·thah, the one too little to get to be among the thousands of Judah, from you there will come out to me the one who is to become ruler in Israel, whose origin is from early times, from the days of time indefinite.
Book of Mormon says: Without sin, there would have been no children
Book of Mormon - Nephi 2:25
Pearl of Great Price - Moses 5:11
The Bible - Genesis 1:28 Further, God blessed+ them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”
Book of Mormon says: Adam and Eve left Eden in great joy
Book of Mormon - 2Nephi 2:22-25
The Bible - Genesis 3:24, And so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of E′den the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.
Romans 5:12, That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned
1Corinthians 15:22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive
Book of Mormon says: Adams sin, enabling us to be born, brought life
Book of Mormon - 2Nephi 2:23
The Bible - 1Corinithians 15:22, Romans 5:12,14,19, 1Timothy 2:14
Book of Mormon says: The soul could never die
Book of Mormon - Alma 42:9
The Bible - Ezekiel 18:4,20 Psalms 78:50 Genesis 3:4 Genesis 2:17
Book of Mormon says: They (men) shall build New Jerusalem
Book of Mormon - 3Nephi 21:23-24
Note: The Book of Mormon contradicts itself on this point, for at Ether 13:3 refers to the New Jerusalem which should come down out of heaven
The Bible - Revelation 21:2
Pearl of Great Price says: Joseph Smith claims to have seen God and Jesus Christ
Pearl of Great Price - P. 48
The Bible - Exodus 33:20 1John 4:12 1Timothy 6:16 Colossians 1:15
Book of Mormon says: God is both the father and son
Book of Mormon - Mosiah 15:2-3 3:5 Ether 4:14
The Bible - John 14:28 Eph 4:6
Book of Mormon says: After his ascension, Christ showed his body to them
Book of Mormon - 3Nephi 10:18-19
The Bible - John 14:19 1Peter 3:18 Acts 9:3-5
Book of Mormon says: Hell hath no end
Book of Mormon - 1Nepohi 14:3
The Bible - Revelation 20:14
Book of Mormon says: The discovered doctrines in North America were left by the lost tribes of Israel
Book of Mormon - 3Nephi 17:4
The Bible - Acts 26:6-7 15:24
Mormons teach many other new or different doctrines: These will be looked up later
1 Adam is a superior person;
2 The soul is immortal
3 Polygamy is permitted
4 There will be new revelations after the completion of the Bible
5 It is acceptable that there be a Baptism of the dead
Book of Mormon -
The Bible - Galatians 1:8-9
Mormons recognize that there are literally hundreds of translations of the Bible (some of which contradict each other)
The Bible says that "All scripture is inspired and beneficial for teaching, reproving and setting things straight." Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Bible is complete and in that all scriptures are in agreement. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jehovah is that author of the Bible and that as the author, he did not make a mistake.
As with all my research, it is ongoing and always under construction. So whatever you may be reading, there's a good chance it will change by the time you read it a second time. As I learn more about the Mormon teaching, I will post it and revise what I have written.
1. Preliminary to a discussion on the Mormon doctrine
Let it be known up front that I am not a Mormon, nor have I ever been a Mormon. I have created this blog solely for the purpose of keeping my notes on what I think Mormons believe and have compared what their Elders or preachers have told me and compared that with the Bible. Much of what they tell me, I could not find in the Bible. A good portion of the information found in this blog was gleaned from discussions I have had with two Mormon Elders from the Waialua Hawaii Ward. I have in my files, the original letters in their hand writing going back and forth from myself to these two Elders from the Waialua Hawaii Ward named John Alderich & Boyd Barney. The date of this writing began on August 20, 1984 and our conversations continued for about a month. I certainly hope nothing in these notes are taken out of context. I am writing for my own personal use and am not challenging any Mormon and certainly don't want anybody to read these notes as if they are an attack on the Mormon religion. I wish to compare the content of each literature and not the personalities of their respective authors. I do not include information here that comes from here-say or from what some disgruntled X-Mormon has to say about it. That being said, here are my notes. I encourage conversation and an interchange of encouragement on the facts.
The information listed in these pages are not listed in any particular order of importance. The information is organized as thoughts occur to me and time to investigate what I find is recorded. This first section 1. Preliminary information is just a collection of thoughts ready for research. As research is done, the information is distributed to its own section and titled. My introduction to this list of questions is based on discussions from Mormons and from my understanding after reading publications printed by Mormons. So let us see if the revelation of Joseph Smith is the same teaching as the apostle John. After all the truth is consistent and cannot be changed. There is only one truth and the rest is something else but certainly not truth.
So, what do Mormons really believe? Before I look into the Book of Mormon and their other publications to aid in that determination, let me mention that what I have heard and read about them is: they are diligent, care about family values and make attempts at financial and physical self-sufficiency and independence. It is because of this clean living and what I believe to be a sincere desire to serve their god that I often wonder how many of them actually know the deep things that are taught by the Mormon religion. They are often referred to as The Latter Day Saints (hereinafter LDS or Mormons). I have heard but have not as yet found evidence to the issue that some inner affairs sacred to the Mormons are hidden from outsiders. At the time of this writing, I don't know what inner affair would be sacred to them and maybe in time and with some due diligence, I will find out. The common response I get from a Mormon on a question I have about their belief, if they don't know the answer right then is "the answers to my questions involved mysteries that one day would be solved as the light became brighter," that I should "Pray about the matter."
My introduction to this list of questions is after reading publications printed by the Mormons. For now I am only researching the core beliefs of the Mormons as I understand their belief to be. Should I be in error in any part of my understanding, and you are a Mormon reading this blog, please do correct me so that I might remain impartial during the recording of my notes. Or if you are an individual reading this and claim to represent the Mormon religion, and items listed herein are incorrect, I do ask that you make notes on this document and contact me so that I can make the needed corrections. It is not my intention in this research to do anything other than examine and compare available documents. Let the reader of this research add to it anyway he can in support of another direction by simply documenting where a corrected statement is located ie: publication, page paragraph number etc. I will quickly make the necessary changes.
Basics that I have learned: They claim that there is no division between clergy and laity. The president of the Church is referred to as a prophet, seer and revelator. Two counselors from the Church's presiding authority, called the Quorum of the Presidency or the First Presidency. The temple endowment ceremony involves a series of covenants or promises and a special temple undergarment to be worn ever after as a protection from evil and as a reminder of the vows of secrecy taken. A Mormon couple may seal their marriage in a temple for time and eternity so that their family can remain intact in heaven, where the couple may continue to bear children.
A few things I will be discussing in this blog is some basic core teachings that I understand Mormons believe, where to find this in their "Holy" books and how to either agree or dispute those beliefs using the Bible, which I personally believe to be the only "Holy" book to be used as a reference in knowing the will & purpose of our God Jehovah.
Some of the Mormons points I plan to discuss: (and when I do find their belief on each of these subjects, the information will be posted to the bottom of this page under Mormon Points discussed. And the discussion will be in the form of their position vs. the statements from the Bible.
•What are Mormon Holy writings
•That man should be involved in American politics and should defend America to death
•That man pre-existed in another life before becoming a man
•God is an exalted, perfected human
•God has a physical body
•There is more than one God
•Human beings have the potential to become like God and/or even another God
•Mormons are here to restore Christianity
•The Trinity
•The purpose of the Mormon ministry - Is it to preach the word of God?
•Tithing is a scriptural requirement
•Who was Lucifer
•What happens to you when you die?
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1. MORMON DATA
The Mormon story tells of a vast settlements across the North American continent. Helaman 3:8 reads: "and it came to pass that they did multiply and spread… To cover the face of the whole earth." According to Mormon 1:7 the land had become covered with buildings. In my research I wondered where the remains of these sprawling civilizations are? Where are the Nephite artifacts? Such as gold coins, swords and shields or breastplates? Alma 11:4, 43:18-20
Although the exact site is unknown, the Garden of Eden was probably in the Mesopotamian region by the Euphrates River (Genesis 2:11-14). Doctrine and Covenants 57: Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri. Ezekiel 18:4 and Acts 3:23 say that the soul dies. The Book of Mormon Alma 42:9 says that the soul could never die. The Bible says that Jesus was born in Bethlehem - Matthew 2:1-6. Alma 7:10 says Jesus was to be born in Bethlehem. The Bible says Jesus is begotten by Holy Spirit Matthew 1:20. Journal of Discourses volume 1 pages 50-51 says, "Jesus was not begotten by Holy Spirit. He was begotten in the flesh by Adams having intercourse with Mary." The Bible and Revelation 21:2 says that the new Jerusalem was to be in heaven. The Book of Mormon 3 Nephi 1:2-3; Jacob 7:26 says, its prophets are said to have written according to their own knowledge.
Some find it difficult to reconcile that about 20 Jews were said to have left Jerusalem for America 600BCE but that no less than 30 years they have multiplied and split into two nations of people 2Nephi 5:28. Within 19 years of their arrival the small band supposedly built a temple "after the manner of the Temple of Solomon … And the workmanship zero was exceedingly fine" 2Nephi 5:16. A formidable task indeed. The seven-year construction of Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem occupied nearly 200,000 laborers craftsman and overseers 1Kings chapters 5-6. While I do not like doing research using newspaper articles because of they are often inaccurate on their reports I have found it is better to go straight to the source of the investigation. Although in an article published in a magazine or newspaper I might put that out for quote from and ask a person who might be familiar with the subject of the article to verify whether a particular article that was written is biased or not. One such article was taken from the January 11 1998 Honolulu advertiser on island life - "On a mission from God" Here it was stated that The Mormon Church claims to have some 10,000,000 members stating that of those members some 56,000 engage in the preaching work in the 161 countries or about 350 +/- in each country. The missionaries pay the church $375 each month for this experience. (True or False? I have no idea, this is just what the article said).
It is also rumored that the church also directs its members to stockpile a years worth of groceries but abstinence from alcohol, tobacco, tea and coffee is to be total. It should also be noted that abstinence from alcohol is not unique to Latter-day Saints.
Do the Mormons support using guns in self-defense? Early Mormon history provides some interesting examples. Although Joseph Smith originally restrained the Saints from using violence in self-defense, he rescinded that counsel when the persecutions became more severe. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 225.) The Nauvoo Legion, with General Joseph Smith at its head, along with legendary gun toters like Porter Rockwell and the Danites, demonstrate that early Mormons became theologically comfortable with wielding guns in their defense.
Joseph Smith even taught that it was sometimes necessary for men to take up arms because of their religious obligation to defend their families: It may be that the Saints will have to beat their ploughs into swords, for it will not do for men to sit down patiently and see their children destroyed. (HC 6:365.)
There is one principle which is eternal; it is the duty of all men to protect their lives and the lives of the household, whenever necessity requires, and no power has a right to forbid it, should the last extreme arrive, but I anticipate no such extreme, but caution is the parent of safety. (HC 6:605.)
Or my personal favorite quote by Joseph Smith on the subject: Peace be still, bury the hatchet and the sword, the sound of war is dreadful in my ear. [But] any man who will not fight for his wife and children is a coward and a bastard. (An American Prophet’s Record: The Diaries and Journals of Joseph Smith, p. 298.)
Some notable Mormon dates
•1805: Founder: Joseph Smith Jr. was born
•1820: Joseph Smith’s alleged “First Vision” = Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Smith and told him not to join any of the churches for they were “all” wrong.
•1827: Smith allegedly received the “Gold Plates” from the Angel Moroni from which the Book of Mormon was translated.
•1830: Book of Mormon was published and the Church was organized with the help of Sidney Rigdon and Parley P. Pratt under the name the “Church of Christ.”
•1834: Church name was changed to “Church of the Latter Day Saints.”
•1838: Church name changed to its final form, “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
•1831-1838: Church operated from Kirtland, Ohio and built its first temple there.
•1831-1838: Mormons settled in Independence (Jackson Country) and Far West (Caldwell County), Missouri. In 1838, Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon relocated church headquarters from Kirtland to Far West, but their stay was short-lived as many conflicts with non-Mormon residents led to their expulsion from the state by Governor Bogg’s Extermination Order against them.
•1839-1844: Church headquarters operated from Nauvoo, Illinois. Joseph Smith was appointed Mayor of the city until his death in 1844.
•1843: Doctrine and Covenants Section 132 was recorded. This revelation authorized the taking of “virgins” in plural marriage. Many believe that in addition to his wife Emma, Joseph Smith married 33 additional wives, one as young as 14 years old.
•1844: Joseph Smith taught his famous “King Follett” discourse on the nature of God as an “exalted man.” When the first edition of the Nauvoo Expositor paper exposed Joseph Smith’s teachings on the plurality of gods and polygamy, Joseph ordered the destruction of the press and was quickly arrested. As a mob stormed the Carthage jail, Smith died in a gun battle in which he killed two men and injured another.
•1847: Mormon Pioneers under the leadership of 2nd LDS Prophet Brigham Young’s leadership arrive in the Salt Lake Valley.
UNIQUE LDS PRACTICES:
•Emphasis on obtaining genealogical records so that current LDS members may perform baptism by proxy in LDS temples for dead non-Mormon relatives.
•Marriage for eternity in LDS temples – Non-LDS relatives or friends are not allowed to attend temple wedding ceremonies. How does a Mormon wedding work? The Temple Ceremony. Only faithful members of the Church are allowed to attend. All your guests must have a temple recommend issued by their bishop to enter the temple, which means your ceremony will likely be smaller than it would be in a non-temple wedding (usually it's just family and close friends that are Mormons in good standing with the Church).
•LDS Sacrament (communion) consists of water and leavened bread, instead of the Biblical pattern of wine and unleavened bread.
•Annual Tithing Settlement meetings where Mormons state whether or not their 10% tithe has been paid to the LDS Church. The tithe is a necessary requirement for entrance into the Mormon temple.
•Word of Wisdom: Mormons abstain from coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco. I have heard that tea & soft drinks are acceptable.
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OTHER CONTROVERSIAL BELIEFS:
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•JESUS HAD MANY WIVES: LDS Apostles Orson Hyde, Orson Pratt and Jedediah M. Grant claimed that Jesus was a “Polygamist” who married several women. (The Seer, p. 172; Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 346; vol. 4, p. 259) The LDS Church of today seeks to distance itself from the polygamist views of early Mormon leaders and thus does not adhere to this view today.
•THE FATHER PROCREATED JESUS’ HUMAN BODY: LDS authorities and church manuals have taught that Jesus is the “literal” Son of God whose fleshly body was physically “conceived” and “begotten” by Heavenly Father and Mary in the same way that children are begotten. (Mormon Doctrine, p. 742; Family Home Evening, 1972, pp. 125-126) Although LDS leaders today tend to de-emphasize this belief, it has never been (at least as of the date of this writing) denounced officially by the LDS Church.
•BLOOD ATONEMENT: The Prophet Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Joseph Fielding Smith and LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie all claimed that there are “certain sins” which the blood of Christ cannot cover and that one must have his “own blood shed” to atone for those sins. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 134-135, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, pp. 53-54, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 92-93) This doctrine, known as the “blood atonement” doctrine, is not emphasized today, but it has never been denounced by the LDS Church.
•GARDEN OF EDEN IN MISSOURI: Joseph Smith taught Jackson County is where the Garden of Eden was located and that when Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden, they moved to Caldwell County and Daviess County of Far West, Missouri. LDS believe Far West is the location where Cain killed Abel. The “Adam-ondi-Ahman” valley in Daviess County is thought to be the location where Adam will visit prior to the second coming of Christ. While this view is still held by LDS, it has no support with the Biblical text. Since Genesis 2:10-14 mentions the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flowing from the Garden of Eden, many speculate that if these rivers are in the same location as they were before the flood, the Garden of Eden was located somewhere in the Middle East, possibly in Iraq.
•CREATION NOT OUT OF NOTHING: Mormons believe that God did not create the world “ex nihilo” (out of nothing), but merely organized matter already in existence. This view is not unique to Mormonism, for it grew out of second and third century Greek Gnosticism and Aristotelian and the Platonic views of the world. Early Church Fathers such as Irenaeus and Tertullian argued strongly for the Christian belief that God created the world out of nothing and this has been the historic Christian position for centuries. While the Bible does not specifically state that God created all things “out of nothing,” it is significant that Scripture uses language that leads to this view. At Hebrews 11:3 and Romans 4:17 we see that God created the visible world out of the invisible, and that He “calls into being that which does not exist.”
A point of interest is that Joseph Smith had 27 or 33 or 34 wives depending on which accounts you read and to all the public records I have found, there have been -0- children proven to have this man's DNA. Of those documented children born to Joseph Smith they were still born and died within hours of being born. In other documents, it is claimed that Joseph Smith had 11 children through his wife Emma, but only 5 lived to adulthood (one of which was adopted). There is ongoing genetic research to determine if any of these alleged children have Smith's genetic markers, but all tests have been negative.
Many historians claim that Joseph Smith, Jr. (1805–1844), the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, taught and practiced polygamy during his ministry, and married multiple women during his lifetime. Smith, and the leading quorums of his church, publicly denied he taught or practiced it.
Why do Mormons wear white shirts? It is claimed that the white shirt shows your obedience and your willingness to submit to God.
Statements made by Joseph Smith was that "he was better than Jesus Christ in that he would be able to keep the Church together!"
Mormon points Discussed:
•What happens to you when you die?
According to the Mormon website www.mormon.org/ a parallel was drawn between a hand in a glove to life. It was said that when you take off the glove the hand does not cease to exist but continues on.
On this site Mormons say: Death is the separation of your body from your spirit. Unlike your physical body, which eventually stops functioning and dies, your spirit will continue to exist. After death your spirit will reside in a temporary afterlife while you await resurrection. When you are resurrected, as Jesus Christ was, your spirit will be reunited with your own perfected, immortal body. Then you will be judged by God and live forever according to your eternal reward. Where do Mormons say a spirit goes after death? The Book of Mormon, a (professed) Christian book of scripture from ancient America, explains that “the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life” (Alma 40:11). But this is not the end. Rather, after death, your spirit goes to a designated place to await resurrection: “There is a space between death and the resurrection of the body, and a state of the soul in happiness or in misery” (Alma 40:21).
However, the Bible clearly says that death was a punishment for disobedience and that because of that disobedience, man would die and all his offspring then having inherited that original sin also would die. We get this understanding from Genesis 3:1-5 which says, vs.1 "Now the serpent was the most cautious of all the wild animals of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it said to the woman: “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” 2 At this the woman said to the serpent: “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden. 3 But God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: ‘You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’” 4 At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die. 5 For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”
The Bible says: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalm 146:4) Therefore, when we die, we cease to exist. The dead can’t think, act, or feel anything. Death is not necessarily the end of everything. The Bible often compares death to sleep. (Psalm 13:3; John 11:11-14; Acts 7:60) A person who is fast asleep is unaware of what is happening around him. Likewise, the dead are not conscious of anything. Yet, the Bible teaches that God can awaken the dead as if from sleep and give them life again. (Job 14:13-15) For those whom God resurrects, death is not the end of everything. It was Satan or the original serpent that said "you positively will not die" not God. An extension of that reasoning shows that any entity that supports the teaching that "you positively will not die" must be an agent of that original serpent.
THIS RESEARCH IS STILL ONGOING. I HAVE NOT FINISHED IT. MUCH OF IT WILL BE EDITED AND UPDATED IN THE DAYS TO COME. So I believe that information written herein is accurate as of 1986. THIS SITE IS STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION.
The information listed in these pages are not listed in any particular order of importance. The information is organized as thoughts occur to me and time to investigate what I find is recorded. This first section 1. Preliminary information is just a collection of thoughts ready for research. As research is done, the information is distributed to its own section and titled. My introduction to this list of questions is based on discussions from Mormons and from my understanding after reading publications printed by Mormons. So let us see if the revelation of Joseph Smith is the same teaching as the apostle John. After all the truth is consistent and cannot be changed. There is only one truth and the rest is something else but certainly not truth.
So, what do Mormons really believe? Before I look into the Book of Mormon and their other publications to aid in that determination, let me mention that what I have heard and read about them is: they are diligent, care about family values and make attempts at financial and physical self-sufficiency and independence. It is because of this clean living and what I believe to be a sincere desire to serve their god that I often wonder how many of them actually know the deep things that are taught by the Mormon religion. They are often referred to as The Latter Day Saints (hereinafter LDS or Mormons). I have heard but have not as yet found evidence to the issue that some inner affairs sacred to the Mormons are hidden from outsiders. At the time of this writing, I don't know what inner affair would be sacred to them and maybe in time and with some due diligence, I will find out. The common response I get from a Mormon on a question I have about their belief, if they don't know the answer right then is "the answers to my questions involved mysteries that one day would be solved as the light became brighter," that I should "Pray about the matter."
My introduction to this list of questions is after reading publications printed by the Mormons. For now I am only researching the core beliefs of the Mormons as I understand their belief to be. Should I be in error in any part of my understanding, and you are a Mormon reading this blog, please do correct me so that I might remain impartial during the recording of my notes. Or if you are an individual reading this and claim to represent the Mormon religion, and items listed herein are incorrect, I do ask that you make notes on this document and contact me so that I can make the needed corrections. It is not my intention in this research to do anything other than examine and compare available documents. Let the reader of this research add to it anyway he can in support of another direction by simply documenting where a corrected statement is located ie: publication, page paragraph number etc. I will quickly make the necessary changes.
Basics that I have learned: They claim that there is no division between clergy and laity. The president of the Church is referred to as a prophet, seer and revelator. Two counselors from the Church's presiding authority, called the Quorum of the Presidency or the First Presidency. The temple endowment ceremony involves a series of covenants or promises and a special temple undergarment to be worn ever after as a protection from evil and as a reminder of the vows of secrecy taken. A Mormon couple may seal their marriage in a temple for time and eternity so that their family can remain intact in heaven, where the couple may continue to bear children.
A few things I will be discussing in this blog is some basic core teachings that I understand Mormons believe, where to find this in their "Holy" books and how to either agree or dispute those beliefs using the Bible, which I personally believe to be the only "Holy" book to be used as a reference in knowing the will & purpose of our God Jehovah.
Some of the Mormons points I plan to discuss: (and when I do find their belief on each of these subjects, the information will be posted to the bottom of this page under Mormon Points discussed. And the discussion will be in the form of their position vs. the statements from the Bible.
•What are Mormon Holy writings
•That man should be involved in American politics and should defend America to death
•That man pre-existed in another life before becoming a man
•God is an exalted, perfected human
•God has a physical body
•There is more than one God
•Human beings have the potential to become like God and/or even another God
•Mormons are here to restore Christianity
•The Trinity
•The purpose of the Mormon ministry - Is it to preach the word of God?
•Tithing is a scriptural requirement
•Who was Lucifer
•What happens to you when you die?
•
1. MORMON DATA
The Mormon story tells of a vast settlements across the North American continent. Helaman 3:8 reads: "and it came to pass that they did multiply and spread… To cover the face of the whole earth." According to Mormon 1:7 the land had become covered with buildings. In my research I wondered where the remains of these sprawling civilizations are? Where are the Nephite artifacts? Such as gold coins, swords and shields or breastplates? Alma 11:4, 43:18-20
Although the exact site is unknown, the Garden of Eden was probably in the Mesopotamian region by the Euphrates River (Genesis 2:11-14). Doctrine and Covenants 57: Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri. Ezekiel 18:4 and Acts 3:23 say that the soul dies. The Book of Mormon Alma 42:9 says that the soul could never die. The Bible says that Jesus was born in Bethlehem - Matthew 2:1-6. Alma 7:10 says Jesus was to be born in Bethlehem. The Bible says Jesus is begotten by Holy Spirit Matthew 1:20. Journal of Discourses volume 1 pages 50-51 says, "Jesus was not begotten by Holy Spirit. He was begotten in the flesh by Adams having intercourse with Mary." The Bible and Revelation 21:2 says that the new Jerusalem was to be in heaven. The Book of Mormon 3 Nephi 1:2-3; Jacob 7:26 says, its prophets are said to have written according to their own knowledge.
Some find it difficult to reconcile that about 20 Jews were said to have left Jerusalem for America 600BCE but that no less than 30 years they have multiplied and split into two nations of people 2Nephi 5:28. Within 19 years of their arrival the small band supposedly built a temple "after the manner of the Temple of Solomon … And the workmanship zero was exceedingly fine" 2Nephi 5:16. A formidable task indeed. The seven-year construction of Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem occupied nearly 200,000 laborers craftsman and overseers 1Kings chapters 5-6. While I do not like doing research using newspaper articles because of they are often inaccurate on their reports I have found it is better to go straight to the source of the investigation. Although in an article published in a magazine or newspaper I might put that out for quote from and ask a person who might be familiar with the subject of the article to verify whether a particular article that was written is biased or not. One such article was taken from the January 11 1998 Honolulu advertiser on island life - "On a mission from God" Here it was stated that The Mormon Church claims to have some 10,000,000 members stating that of those members some 56,000 engage in the preaching work in the 161 countries or about 350 +/- in each country. The missionaries pay the church $375 each month for this experience. (True or False? I have no idea, this is just what the article said).
It is also rumored that the church also directs its members to stockpile a years worth of groceries but abstinence from alcohol, tobacco, tea and coffee is to be total. It should also be noted that abstinence from alcohol is not unique to Latter-day Saints.
Do the Mormons support using guns in self-defense? Early Mormon history provides some interesting examples. Although Joseph Smith originally restrained the Saints from using violence in self-defense, he rescinded that counsel when the persecutions became more severe. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 225.) The Nauvoo Legion, with General Joseph Smith at its head, along with legendary gun toters like Porter Rockwell and the Danites, demonstrate that early Mormons became theologically comfortable with wielding guns in their defense.
Joseph Smith even taught that it was sometimes necessary for men to take up arms because of their religious obligation to defend their families: It may be that the Saints will have to beat their ploughs into swords, for it will not do for men to sit down patiently and see their children destroyed. (HC 6:365.)
There is one principle which is eternal; it is the duty of all men to protect their lives and the lives of the household, whenever necessity requires, and no power has a right to forbid it, should the last extreme arrive, but I anticipate no such extreme, but caution is the parent of safety. (HC 6:605.)
Or my personal favorite quote by Joseph Smith on the subject: Peace be still, bury the hatchet and the sword, the sound of war is dreadful in my ear. [But] any man who will not fight for his wife and children is a coward and a bastard. (An American Prophet’s Record: The Diaries and Journals of Joseph Smith, p. 298.)
Some notable Mormon dates
•1805: Founder: Joseph Smith Jr. was born
•1820: Joseph Smith’s alleged “First Vision” = Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Smith and told him not to join any of the churches for they were “all” wrong.
•1827: Smith allegedly received the “Gold Plates” from the Angel Moroni from which the Book of Mormon was translated.
•1830: Book of Mormon was published and the Church was organized with the help of Sidney Rigdon and Parley P. Pratt under the name the “Church of Christ.”
•1834: Church name was changed to “Church of the Latter Day Saints.”
•1838: Church name changed to its final form, “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
•1831-1838: Church operated from Kirtland, Ohio and built its first temple there.
•1831-1838: Mormons settled in Independence (Jackson Country) and Far West (Caldwell County), Missouri. In 1838, Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon relocated church headquarters from Kirtland to Far West, but their stay was short-lived as many conflicts with non-Mormon residents led to their expulsion from the state by Governor Bogg’s Extermination Order against them.
•1839-1844: Church headquarters operated from Nauvoo, Illinois. Joseph Smith was appointed Mayor of the city until his death in 1844.
•1843: Doctrine and Covenants Section 132 was recorded. This revelation authorized the taking of “virgins” in plural marriage. Many believe that in addition to his wife Emma, Joseph Smith married 33 additional wives, one as young as 14 years old.
•1844: Joseph Smith taught his famous “King Follett” discourse on the nature of God as an “exalted man.” When the first edition of the Nauvoo Expositor paper exposed Joseph Smith’s teachings on the plurality of gods and polygamy, Joseph ordered the destruction of the press and was quickly arrested. As a mob stormed the Carthage jail, Smith died in a gun battle in which he killed two men and injured another.
•1847: Mormon Pioneers under the leadership of 2nd LDS Prophet Brigham Young’s leadership arrive in the Salt Lake Valley.
UNIQUE LDS PRACTICES:
•Emphasis on obtaining genealogical records so that current LDS members may perform baptism by proxy in LDS temples for dead non-Mormon relatives.
•Marriage for eternity in LDS temples – Non-LDS relatives or friends are not allowed to attend temple wedding ceremonies. How does a Mormon wedding work? The Temple Ceremony. Only faithful members of the Church are allowed to attend. All your guests must have a temple recommend issued by their bishop to enter the temple, which means your ceremony will likely be smaller than it would be in a non-temple wedding (usually it's just family and close friends that are Mormons in good standing with the Church).
•LDS Sacrament (communion) consists of water and leavened bread, instead of the Biblical pattern of wine and unleavened bread.
•Annual Tithing Settlement meetings where Mormons state whether or not their 10% tithe has been paid to the LDS Church. The tithe is a necessary requirement for entrance into the Mormon temple.
•Word of Wisdom: Mormons abstain from coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco. I have heard that tea & soft drinks are acceptable.
•
OTHER CONTROVERSIAL BELIEFS:
•
•JESUS HAD MANY WIVES: LDS Apostles Orson Hyde, Orson Pratt and Jedediah M. Grant claimed that Jesus was a “Polygamist” who married several women. (The Seer, p. 172; Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 346; vol. 4, p. 259) The LDS Church of today seeks to distance itself from the polygamist views of early Mormon leaders and thus does not adhere to this view today.
•THE FATHER PROCREATED JESUS’ HUMAN BODY: LDS authorities and church manuals have taught that Jesus is the “literal” Son of God whose fleshly body was physically “conceived” and “begotten” by Heavenly Father and Mary in the same way that children are begotten. (Mormon Doctrine, p. 742; Family Home Evening, 1972, pp. 125-126) Although LDS leaders today tend to de-emphasize this belief, it has never been (at least as of the date of this writing) denounced officially by the LDS Church.
•BLOOD ATONEMENT: The Prophet Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Joseph Fielding Smith and LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie all claimed that there are “certain sins” which the blood of Christ cannot cover and that one must have his “own blood shed” to atone for those sins. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 134-135, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, pp. 53-54, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 92-93) This doctrine, known as the “blood atonement” doctrine, is not emphasized today, but it has never been denounced by the LDS Church.
•GARDEN OF EDEN IN MISSOURI: Joseph Smith taught Jackson County is where the Garden of Eden was located and that when Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden, they moved to Caldwell County and Daviess County of Far West, Missouri. LDS believe Far West is the location where Cain killed Abel. The “Adam-ondi-Ahman” valley in Daviess County is thought to be the location where Adam will visit prior to the second coming of Christ. While this view is still held by LDS, it has no support with the Biblical text. Since Genesis 2:10-14 mentions the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flowing from the Garden of Eden, many speculate that if these rivers are in the same location as they were before the flood, the Garden of Eden was located somewhere in the Middle East, possibly in Iraq.
•CREATION NOT OUT OF NOTHING: Mormons believe that God did not create the world “ex nihilo” (out of nothing), but merely organized matter already in existence. This view is not unique to Mormonism, for it grew out of second and third century Greek Gnosticism and Aristotelian and the Platonic views of the world. Early Church Fathers such as Irenaeus and Tertullian argued strongly for the Christian belief that God created the world out of nothing and this has been the historic Christian position for centuries. While the Bible does not specifically state that God created all things “out of nothing,” it is significant that Scripture uses language that leads to this view. At Hebrews 11:3 and Romans 4:17 we see that God created the visible world out of the invisible, and that He “calls into being that which does not exist.”
A point of interest is that Joseph Smith had 27 or 33 or 34 wives depending on which accounts you read and to all the public records I have found, there have been -0- children proven to have this man's DNA. Of those documented children born to Joseph Smith they were still born and died within hours of being born. In other documents, it is claimed that Joseph Smith had 11 children through his wife Emma, but only 5 lived to adulthood (one of which was adopted). There is ongoing genetic research to determine if any of these alleged children have Smith's genetic markers, but all tests have been negative.
Many historians claim that Joseph Smith, Jr. (1805–1844), the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, taught and practiced polygamy during his ministry, and married multiple women during his lifetime. Smith, and the leading quorums of his church, publicly denied he taught or practiced it.
Why do Mormons wear white shirts? It is claimed that the white shirt shows your obedience and your willingness to submit to God.
Statements made by Joseph Smith was that "he was better than Jesus Christ in that he would be able to keep the Church together!"
Mormon points Discussed:
•What happens to you when you die?
According to the Mormon website www.mormon.org/ a parallel was drawn between a hand in a glove to life. It was said that when you take off the glove the hand does not cease to exist but continues on.
On this site Mormons say: Death is the separation of your body from your spirit. Unlike your physical body, which eventually stops functioning and dies, your spirit will continue to exist. After death your spirit will reside in a temporary afterlife while you await resurrection. When you are resurrected, as Jesus Christ was, your spirit will be reunited with your own perfected, immortal body. Then you will be judged by God and live forever according to your eternal reward. Where do Mormons say a spirit goes after death? The Book of Mormon, a (professed) Christian book of scripture from ancient America, explains that “the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life” (Alma 40:11). But this is not the end. Rather, after death, your spirit goes to a designated place to await resurrection: “There is a space between death and the resurrection of the body, and a state of the soul in happiness or in misery” (Alma 40:21).
However, the Bible clearly says that death was a punishment for disobedience and that because of that disobedience, man would die and all his offspring then having inherited that original sin also would die. We get this understanding from Genesis 3:1-5 which says, vs.1 "Now the serpent was the most cautious of all the wild animals of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it said to the woman: “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” 2 At this the woman said to the serpent: “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden. 3 But God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: ‘You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’” 4 At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die. 5 For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”
The Bible says: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalm 146:4) Therefore, when we die, we cease to exist. The dead can’t think, act, or feel anything. Death is not necessarily the end of everything. The Bible often compares death to sleep. (Psalm 13:3; John 11:11-14; Acts 7:60) A person who is fast asleep is unaware of what is happening around him. Likewise, the dead are not conscious of anything. Yet, the Bible teaches that God can awaken the dead as if from sleep and give them life again. (Job 14:13-15) For those whom God resurrects, death is not the end of everything. It was Satan or the original serpent that said "you positively will not die" not God. An extension of that reasoning shows that any entity that supports the teaching that "you positively will not die" must be an agent of that original serpent.
THIS RESEARCH IS STILL ONGOING. I HAVE NOT FINISHED IT. MUCH OF IT WILL BE EDITED AND UPDATED IN THE DAYS TO COME. So I believe that information written herein is accurate as of 1986. THIS SITE IS STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION.
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