Plan of salvation - The Latter-day Saint theology embraces what Mormons refer to as the “plan of salvation.” The topic covers the pre-mortal state of all mankind, the reasons why God created the world, the nature and purpose of our life here and what future awaits us in the next life. In this discussion, I only plan to discuss what the Mormons believe and briefly go into what the Bible says, vs. what the Mormons teach and how their teaching is in some ways similar to that of other religions of Christendom.
First of all, this is not a belief shared only by the Mormons. I have discovered that thousands if not millions of others including those claiming to be Buddhists and Hindus believe that they too have lived before. They believe that something within them, some call it the soul, the spirit, the inner you or the real you, survives death and is reborn in one or more successive existences. This "something" returns in human, or as some say even vegetable form. Most of them agree that the purpose of this is gradually to purify the soul or to leave the individual to ultimate perfection. So admittedly, the idea of having lived before and if perhaps even living again maybe fascinating, even comforting to some. But is it true? I found a quote from James E Talmadge who was reported to have written the "many scriptural proofs that the spirits of mankind existed prior to their earthly probation - a condition in which these intelligences lived and exercise their free agency before they assumed bodily tabernacles." Then referencing Jesus' proof of his preexistence he says, "it is consistent to infer that if Jesus' earthly birth was the union of a pre-existence or anti-mortal spirit with a mortal body, such also is the birth of every member of the human family."
On a side note, the Mormons claim is supported in part by Jesus' having had a pre-human existence. Thus his earthly sojourn was not designed to place him on earthly probation as though he were a sinner. On the contrary, he was perfect, a sinless human, able to redeem sinners, able to give his soul as a ransom in exchange for many. Matthew 20:28. So Jesus is one-of-a-kind, the one mediator between God and men. 1Timothy 2:5-6. His assignment of service on earth was temporary. After completing it, he would return to his real home, to heaven. In times past, invisible spirit creatures, angels, have all materialized visible human bodies that God's direction. Genesis 19:1 Luke 1:26-28 Then in Noah's day, some of them did so on their own initiative. Why? The selfish purpose of enjoying sexual relations with women. Genesis 6:2 Jude 6 clarifies their disobedience when it calls them, "Angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place." Clearly than heaven is the proper dwelling place for Angels, even as the earth for humans. Psalms 115:16, 1 Corinthians 15:39-40, Jesus actually became flesh when he came to earth. John 1:14, not so with these angels hereinafter referred to as demons, they simply materialize human bodies that they deserted at the time of the flood in order to return the spirit realm. Because of their revolt, God confined into the pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment. No longer could they materialize fleshly bodies to live on earth. 2Peter 2:4 it would seem that one major key in determining whether and have lived before not, either in the spirit realm or on earth, is to determine whether he has an immortal soul or not. Genesis 2:7 describes the creation of the first human soul this way: "and the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Here the soul is not described as something distinct and separate from the lifeless body. In fact, only after God energized the lifeless body of the breath of life, thus triggering into his reading, did the soul Adam come to life in when breathing stops the life force ceases, the body once again becomes lifeless. Man goes back to his ground; in that day's thoughts do perish. Psalms 146:4 he must been away for the day of his resurrection live again John 5:28-29. Meanwhile, there can be no work nor devising nor knowledge or wisdom in the death state Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10. In brief, the Bible teaches that when the person dies, the soul is dead. At Ezekiel 18:4, the Bible says that the soul dies. However, the Book of Mormon, at Alma 42:9, states: “The soul could never die.”
Mormons teach that Adam existed in heaven before he came to earth. If the Bible does not say that man lived in spirit form before you send that he came to be a physical being only as a result of that sin is Mormonism claims. To support this document men all men existed in heaven before they came to earth, they refer to Jeremiah's being known out by God and being appointed before he was born. However this is not proof of preexistence, rather is an obvious reference to a special instance of God's foreknowledge and ability to see the future and to specify that a certain individual would do a certain work and that he was set aside, ordained or appointed for it.
You referred to the disciples asking Jesus is the man born blind sin before birth, so you claim this proves that a man must have existed before birth elsewhere than on earth. Jesus denied this, so does Romans 9:11 "for when they had not yet been born, so I practice anything good or vile, in order that the purpose of God respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not a fun work, but upon the one who calls." (I question this item to a Mormon in his comment was to read the Scripture over and over in the under praise what it is really trying to say. He said listen to the spirit) I find that this scripture is in harmony with the rest of the Bible simply put, man did not have a pre-human existence before he became a man.
They further referred to God's asking Job where he was when first foundation was laid and implied that Job must therefore have been in existence at that time. Actually it was Jehovah showing that Job that he was not there, that he was not in existence and that he had none of the knowledge that God did. Actually, God knew Job was unable to answer, as in the case of a rhetorical question, thereby Job would then realize how lowly he was when compared to Him. Job 38:4-41 God here is showing Jobs' limited knowledge even ignorance of His forces.
This is a discussion between myself and a Mormon elder: I said, That there is no statement in the Bible that says that any man other than Christ was alive somewhere else before coming to the earth and implied that this is an important doctrine of Mormonism, but the apostles did not even mention this concept. I made this statement at the opening of this discussion that I was told by a Mormon about this concept, but was never shown in writing from any one of his publications anything that said before his human existence Jesus' name was Adam. It was my attempt in this conversation to discover just who "he" was either Jesus, Adam or God. The Mormon elder said "since all you go by his proof, why are you assuming with someone just told you is accurate? This is contrary to what you all believe. You want facts, then don't assume what someone says is accurate." My response, "I didn't accept what someone told me to be a fact. I questioned it to another Mormon, you! I asked you to support or deny this statement and if you supported it, please use the Bible in your defense, or if you deny it, then I will accept that as support of your belief that two Elders both agreed on the teaching. I am re-stating what another Mormon elder told me. Was he accurate?" I got no response.
My question on the same subject remains to all Mormons reading this as to whether or not Jesus, Michael the arch angel, the Great Prince and Adam were one and the same. In denying that they are, I use Daniel 12:1, where Michael is referred to as the Great Prince. In Revelation 12:7 it states that Michael and his angels battled. In Jude 9 it refers to Michael as having a dispute with the Devil. In each of these scriptures, I fail to see how Michael could be referred to as Adam? According to our understanding, the Great Prince, Michael, the Arch Angel & Jesus Christ are in fact one and the same. Our understanding is based on the activity in which Michael participates. Our understanding also shows that the Arch-Angel is the highest angel in the heavens. This could only be Jesus not the human called Adam who was condemned to death for disobedience.
ADAM-GOD DOCTRINE: Brigham Young proclaimed that Adam conceived Jesus and that Adam “is our Father our God, and the only God with whom we have to do.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 50, 51) This doctrine has officially been denounced by the modern LDS Church.
What would be the purpose of any pre-human existence if we weren't allowed to draw knowledge and experience from it? What would happen to our civilization and system as we now know it is every year our memories completely erased and we all started all over again learning from point -0- progress for one year and then had to restart all over again? Wouldn't that becomes quite frustrating. On a larger scale, the Mormon teaching is the same.
Isaiah 9:6 refers to a child being born that would come to be a mighty God, as well as the Prince of peace and discussed that the government would be upon his shoulder. Also in Daniel 12:1 states that "Michael the great Prince will stand up …" Both scriptures here refer to a Prince. It is only logical to conclude that this Prince is the Arch-angel himself are the highest angel Jesus Christ. The true God would never allow himself causes of in any writing referred to as a prince.
In discussion with another Mormon Elder, I asked "Where do you get your understanding that Adam & any other men besides Jesus Christ existed in heaven before coming to earth?" The Elder referred to Hebrews 12:9 where it says, "Furthermore, we used to have fathers who were of our flesh to discipline us, and we used to give them respect. Shall we not much more subject ourselves to the Father of our spiritual life and live?" It is my understanding this scripture is not referred to having a previous life in heaven, rather states as we give respect for fleshly father, how much more we do God as our spiritual father because through his provisions we became humans here on earth.
Another scripture you referenced was Romans 9:11 which says, "for when they had not yet been born nor had practiced anything good or vile, in order that the purpose of God respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not upon works, but upon the One who calls," I asked, "if they hadn't done anything good or vile, what had they been doing? The Mormon comment, "read over the scripture and pray over it, you'll get the answer." This to me was a shallow response and fails to defend the Mormon belief. The Mormon Elder than referred to Proverbs 8:22-31, Jeremiah 1:5, Numbers 16:22, and Job 1:6. I researched these scriptures. Proverbs 8:22-31 discusses what Wisdom is. It is my understanding that Jesus is wisdom personified and in no way does Proverbs chapter 8 refer in any degree to all mankind. Jeremiah 1:5 simply refers to the wisdom & understanding Jehovah God has of his own creation. I have no idea how Mormons could mis-apply Numbers 16:22 saying that it has anything to do with human pre-existence. The scripture reads, "At this they fell upon their faces and said: “O God, the God of the spirits of every sort of flesh, will just one man sin and you become indignant against the entire assembly?” So I'll just have to pass on that debate until I get a better Mormon response. Job 1:6 has to do with an assembly in heaven with Jehovah, the angels and Satan. Again, I don't see any connection between this scripture and any pre-human existence. I do believe in angels as spirit creatures and that they are in heaven and are alive. The only Biblical record of angels coming to earth was before Noah's day. At the time of the flood, all angels, called demons, that forsook their position in heaven to become humans and father their high-breed of humans called Nephelim were never allowed to materialize again. Angels are not humans nor will they ever become humans again.
Mankind had a pre-mortal, pre-existent life in a spirit world prior to being born into human bodies on earth. Those who fought with Jesus in the battle against Lucifer and the rebellious spirit-brothers were rewarded - those most valiant with white skin.
It should be noted that the Bible teaches mankinds only existence is physical, had a beginning and for some, may have an end. It is not spiritual or angelic in form. God is not partial. So black or brown skin is no less valued than white skinned humans. – 1Corinthians 15:46; Zechariah 12:1; Acts 17:26; Colossians 3:11
Although the Bible has said about death, there are many religions that have their own views. Consider first what the Bible has to say at Ecclesiastes 9:5, "for the living know that they shall die, but the dead note not a thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten." King James version and using the New World translation in vs 10 it says: all that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work, nor devising, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in Sheol the place to which you are going." Psalms 49:16-17 says: "do not be afraid because some men gain riches, because the glory of his house increases, for at his death he cannot take along anything at all ..." The commonly accepted teaching about the resurrection will be of no value unless there is a resurrection.
The Mormon teaching about becoming gods after death, about being involved in the celestial marriage a meeting with your long-lost loved ones after death in the heavens in a different realm certainly do not have its foundation in the Bible. Sections of this report dealing with the issue of life after death are section 7 entitled "On the issue of the celestial marriage" and section 9 entitled "The Mormon family of God's" Selecting specific issues the Mormon teach about death, they say, "Mormons also believe that the spirit of man not only never dies, but that lives stages of eternal progression, that man may ultimately become advancement of stages as intelligent and as on the potent as God himself. Journal of discourses volume 4 comp 283. "And you have got to learn how to become God yourselves, the same as all gods have done before you." Of course is teaching demands that you dying first before you can become that desired for position to be a god. "The gods dwelt the heavens from which are spirits came, are beings who have been redeemed the grave, with their wives, and will be supremely happy. All endearing ties conjugal love existed in their bosoms when terrestrial and fallen beings are now greatly increased an perfected." Statement gleaned from the possible from the apostle Pratt the Seer volume 1, 11, page 23 and volume 3 page 27. However, should be remembered that only the devil promised man that he could be like God. Genesis 3:1-5 stating that "... You positively will not die, for God knows that in the very day of your eating from it, your eyes are bound to be open and you're bound to be like God, ..." Therefore it becomes clear to the reasoning reader that if there were any life after death in any form anywhere that God would have to become the liar and Satan is telling the truth. No other writing from the true God whatever different context with this simple confirmed statement.
As with all my research, it is ongoing and always under construction. So whatever you may be reading, there's a good chance it will change by the time you read it a second time. As I learn more about the Mormon teaching, I will post it and revise what I have written.
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